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Most use cases of ActivityPub would be better off as Atom or RSS feeds

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Re: Most use cases of ActivityPub would be better off as Atom or RSS feeds

#41

Post by cdcfa78156ae5 »

rocky1138 wrote: post #32
smolder wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P2P and self hosted stuff is what I want out of the internet, not SaaS style platforms. People's cable modems are almost always on so it's reasonable for them to have some almost-always-on services behind them, but circumstances make it difficult to build viable P2P tech: - It's tough to monetize since true p2p software can just get pirated. You can't gatekeep to make sure people pay. - The shortage of IPv4 with the…

I've always felt that NAT ruined the internet. It made it basically improbable that someone might host something at home like the internet was made for.

If you care about this, the best thing to do is to start using IPv6, and insisting on IPv6 support in any interactions with service providers (SaaSS, hosting, data providers, etc.) that you have.

Re: Most use cases of ActivityPub would be better off as Atom or RSS feeds

#42

Post by Volt »

floatboth wrote: post #9

Forget RSS/atom, use microformats2 h-feed. https://indieweb.org/sidefile-antipattern And there is existing tech for the popular reply-like-repost UX for this, based on webmention.

This doesn't seem to work too well for sites that need JavaScript to render. Then again, I suppose those sites might not have RSS either.

Re: Most use cases of ActivityPub would be better off as Atom or RSS feeds

#43

Post by floatboth »

Volt wrote: post #42
floatboth wrote: post #9

Forget RSS/atom, use microformats2 h-feed. https://indieweb.org/sidefile-antipattern And there is existing tech for the popular reply-like-repost UX for this, based on webmention.

This doesn't seem to work too well for sites that need JavaScript to render. Then again, I suppose those sites might not have RSS either.

Content sites, i.e. blogs/news type things, MUST NOT need JavaScript to render.

Re: Most use cases of ActivityPub would be better off as Atom or RSS feeds

#44

Post by floatboth »

d2wa wrote: post #24
floatboth wrote: post #9

Forget RSS/atom, use microformats2 h-feed. https://indieweb.org/sidefile-antipattern And there is existing tech for the popular reply-like-repost UX for this, based on webmention.

Are there any feed clients that support h-feed? I’m legitimately asking. I was looking for a h-feed capable client (like a traditional feed reader with h-feed support) only a few days ago and came up with none.

https://indieweb.org/reader

Usually things that integrate more into the whole indieweb ecosystem, but some are (plugins for) more traditional feed readers.

Re: Most use cases of ActivityPub would be better off as Atom or RSS feeds

#45

Post by qwerty456127 »

cdcfa78156ae5 wrote: post #39
qwerty456127 wrote: post #35

I actually dream about bringing Atom (as far as I understand it's better than RSS but RSS just seems a better brand-name for this, in fact in many cases when you click on a link that says RSS you'll get Atom) back, expanding it with social functionality like likes, reposts and comments, implementing it better (auto-generated feeds on many sites are pretty crappy) and popularizing generic feed readers so non-geeks wou…

> expanding it with social functionality like likes, reposts and comments One of the problems I had with blog comments is spam. Blogger would queue up moderated comments and send you an email about them. The idea occurred to me that that was redundant and it would be better to cut out the middleman - you are getting email notifications about comments needing moderation, and email already had long established and much…

I upvoted your response as your ideas are very reasonable but as for me, I don't like e-mail for a number of reasons, both psychologically subjective and technical.

The first things the e-mail ecosystem is to do to become more adequate to the modern day world are to deprecate all the codepages but UTF-8 for any part of a message (header included), eliminate the overquoting tradition (including full text of the message the message is a response to) and introduce an efficient thread tracing mechanism instead, establish a more reasonable signature culture (i.e. people and software to stop including redundant and useless information in the bottom of every message) and make Markdown a core part of the standard (while HTML should better be deprecated).

Re: Most use cases of ActivityPub would be better off as Atom or RSS feeds

#46

Post by berbec »

cdcfa78156ae5 wrote: post #38
berbec wrote: post #28

I'm not an ActivityPub user, but this post remindeds me of the initial comments to "Show HN: Dropbox" [1]. "For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem." 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863

That comment was true then and is even more true now. rsync, unison, and git over SSH provide a far superior solution for more use cases (many of which Dropbox cannot support) than Dropbox does, without any of Dropbox's risks to privacy.

And how many easy to use, one-click install, git over ssh with port-forwarding and key generation packages are there to download out there? There's two levels of software - easy to use and complicated. They both can accomplish the same goal with different levels of privacy.

Re: Most use cases of ActivityPub would be better off as Atom or RSS feeds

#47

Post by Volt »

floatboth wrote: post #43
Volt wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't seem to work too well for sites that need JavaScript to render. Then again, I suppose those sites might not have RSS either.

Content sites, i.e. blogs/news type things, MUST NOT need JavaScript to render.

I agree, but that's where we're headed.

Re: Most use cases of ActivityPub would be better off as Atom or RSS feeds

#48

Post by cdcfa78156ae5 »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #45
cdcfa78156ae5 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> expanding it with social functionality like likes, reposts and comments One of the problems I had with blog comments is spam. Blogger would queue up moderated comments and send you an email about them. The idea occurred to me that that was redundant and it would be better to cut out the middleman - you are getting email notifications about comments needing moderation, and email already had long established and much…

I upvoted your response as your ideas are very reasonable but as for me, I don't like e-mail for a number of reasons, both psychologically subjective and technical. The first things the e-mail ecosystem is to do to become more adequate to the modern day world are to deprecate all the codepages but UTF-8 for any part of a message (header included), eliminate the overquoting tradition (including full text of the messag…

Those are all very good ideas for email. Part of it could be dealt with in RFCs, part of it by changing default email client behavior.

I also agree that email should be a personal preference. I think that DFeed[1][2] shows how open discussion systems should be built. DFeed provides a unified discussion system that is simultaneously accessible through email, NNTP, a web interface, and Atom feeds. That would be a really nice way to offer a comment discussion system on a blog.

[1] https://forum.dlang.org/help#about [2] https://github.com/CyberShadow/DFeed

Re: Most use cases of ActivityPub would be better off as Atom or RSS feeds

#49

Post by cdcfa78156ae5 »

berbec wrote: post #46
cdcfa78156ae5 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comment was true then and is even more true now. rsync, unison, and git over SSH provide a far superior solution for more use cases (many of which Dropbox cannot support) than Dropbox does, without any of Dropbox's risks to privacy.

And how many easy to use, one-click install, git over ssh with port-forwarding and key generation packages are there to download out there? There's two levels of software - easy to use and complicated. They both can accomplish the same goal with different levels of privacy.

There is no such software, because what you are asking for is for the software to "one-click install" read your mind. Dropbox cannot cover customized use cases, and it does not accomplish the same goal. My use of the commands mentioned cannot be replicated by Dropbox. The facts that Dropbox does not provide adequate privacy, and is proprietary software, also prevent it from accomplishing certain goals (namely that I want my data to remain private, and that I would like to avoid using proprietary software).

Re: Most use cases of ActivityPub would be better off as Atom or RSS feeds

#50

Post by rocky1138 »

cdcfa78156ae5 wrote: post #41
rocky1138 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always felt that NAT ruined the internet. It made it basically improbable that someone might host something at home like the internet was made for.

If you care about this, the best thing to do is to start using IPv6, and insisting on IPv6 support in any interactions with service providers (SaaSS, hosting, data providers, etc.) that you have.

All my sites support IPv6. My router is horribly old and doesn't. But, once it kicks the bucket, I'll be sure to get an IPv6-compatible one.
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