Let Teenagers Sleep In • Hacker News Board

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#131

Post by sjg007 » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 2:51 PM UTC

rerx wrote: post #18

One of the many fascinating facts I learnt from Matthew Walker's "Why We Sleep" is that the biorhythms of teenagers are shifted to later hours compared to those of adults in all human cultures of the globe, even in those rare societies hardly affected by technology. In evolution this was likely beneficial to make it easier for teenagers to socialize among themselves without adult disturbance, which was necessary to d…

I think it is more of an evolved response to predation. You need people awake to watch for threats. Teenagers could do that while adults tend to young kids etc... young kids and grandparents tend to awaken early etc... adults too wake earlier as they age so you reduce the threat window.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#132

Post by lngnmn1 » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 2:52 PM UTC

In asia, especially in rural areas, it is common to wake up early, between 5:30 and 6:00 and do a lot of things, including playing football, before reaching school at 9 am. And, you see, they are perfectly healthy and smart.

Of course, almost everyone is going to bed about 9 or 10 pm.

Failure to take into account cultural and social differences plague so-called studies all the time.

Rice as the cause of health problems is another example. Almost 2/3 of humanity consume rice on a daily basis, sometimes few times per day.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#133

Post by Tempest1981 » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

baxtr wrote: post #26

That’s probably a good reason to stick to wintertime in winter and not summertime (the EU decided to drop time ch ages 2x a year)

The EU is still discussing it: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45366390

It might be on a per-country basis. So far 2/3 of the responses have been German. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/31/world/europe/eu-daylight-...

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#134

Post by chefkoch » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

newnewpdro wrote: post #123

deytempo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that this ultimately has to do with one survival trait: who has more sex. I’m guessing that far more teen pregnancy occurs when teens are hanging out without adults around. The ability to shift to different sleep patterns than adults would be among other things, a procreational advantage.

You're mixing a modern model of family structure and sexual relations with evolutionary timescales. It's very unlikely anyone gave a damn about who was having sex with who and at what age before our population sizes reached levels where paternity mattered.

Isn't who has sex with whom the primary issue in most animal groups?

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#135

Post by freeflight » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

singularity2001 wrote: post #130

darkerside wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as likely that teenagers would then be able to stand watch for predators, attacks by other tribes, or hunt for nocturnal prey.

Can the purpose of this mechanism not be determined by observing hunter gatherers?

I don't think there's that many of those left, at least isolated and big enough to serve as an actual testing group.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#136

Post by RoutinePlayer » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 3:01 PM UTC

F*ck that. What's next? Let them do cocaine!?

[joke]

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#137

Post by noobermin » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 3:03 PM UTC

>Three out of every four students in grades 9 to 12 fail to sleep the minimum of eight hours that the American Academy of Sleep Medicine recommends for their age group

Do 3/4 teens fail in life? Do they develop debilitating disorders and such?

I guess I've heard for years we need more sleep yet we don't sleep and we continue living. May be certain things like stress and work are troublesome and such but that seems more like the issue than lack of sleep is.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#138

Post by checkyoursudo » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 3:05 PM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #131

rerx wrote: post #18

One of the many fascinating facts I learnt from Matthew Walker's "Why We Sleep" is that the biorhythms of teenagers are shifted to later hours compared to those of adults in all human cultures of the globe, even in those rare societies hardly affected by technology. In evolution this was likely beneficial to make it easier for teenagers to socialize among themselves without adult disturbance, which was necessary to d…

I think it is more of an evolved response to predation. You need people awake to watch for threats. Teenagers could do that while adults tend to young kids etc... young kids and grandparents tend to awaken early etc... adults too wake earlier as they age so you reduce the threat window.

Maybe, but I wouldn't have put my teenage self on nightwatch. It wouldn't have been pretty. I'm also getting to the point where I don't think I would trust my father to be on early morning lookout.

Seems like there are enough adults who are night owls and morning larks to cover an adult-only watchfulness.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#139

Post by Angostura » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 3:07 PM UTC

rerx wrote: post #18

One of the many fascinating facts I learnt from Matthew Walker's "Why We Sleep" is that the biorhythms of teenagers are shifted to later hours compared to those of adults in all human cultures of the globe, even in those rare societies hardly affected by technology. In evolution this was likely beneficial to make it easier for teenagers to socialize among themselves without adult disturbance, which was necessary to d…

> In evolution this was likely beneficial to make it easier for teenagers to socialize among themselves without adult disturbance,

Any evidence to put this down as a 'likelihood'?

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep In

#140

Post by noobermin » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 3:08 PM UTC

RustySpottedCat wrote: post #41

rerx wrote: post #18

One of the many fascinating facts I learnt from Matthew Walker's "Why We Sleep" is that the biorhythms of teenagers are shifted to later hours compared to those of adults in all human cultures of the globe, even in those rare societies hardly affected by technology. In evolution this was likely beneficial to make it easier for teenagers to socialize among themselves without adult disturbance, which was necessary to d…

yea but we're not in tribes, are we? People take this evolutionary bullshit way too seriously, like we still run around with sticks and stones. None of that crap matters when we live in a modern society. Teenages are going to "socialize with themselves" whether they sleep in or not, no matter what, because, guess what, that's what people do in modern times. They can choose.

As downvoted as this is, this has a point. People point too much to supposed "innate evolved tendencies" while completely discounting social construction and peer pressure and culture, which are definitely relevant.