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Numworks: open-source, Python-compatible handheld graphing calculator

numworks.com

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Re: Numworks: open-source, Python-compatible handheld graphing calculator

#31

Post by JohnStrangeII »

marmaduke wrote: post #7
kfogel wrote: post #4

It's not open source; the Hacker News headline is wrong. The Numworks web site does not claim it's open source, by the way -- the problem is only in the headline here. The license is Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial ShareAlike (CC-BY-NC-SA), and the presence of the "NonCommercial" clause makes it unambiguously non-open-source. If that clause were not present, CC-BY-SA would still be an odd license to use fo…

Source appear to be on GitHub. Non commercial is not incompatible with open source. It makes sense to me that to get the investment required to fund this, you’d want sole rights to commercialize. Nothing prevents someone else from building a cheaper DIY version as long as they don’t sell it. For example it could be a local college class exercise to build these from scratch for local high school. That’s not imaginable…

Whether it's still open source is a bit of a semantic quibble. Fact is that a restriction to non-commercial usage is incompatible with all the major open-source licences like GPL, LGPL, Appache, BSD, MIT, etc. In a sense it's still open source, but the restriction is very unusual.

Re: Numworks: open-source, Python-compatible handheld graphing calculator

#32

Post by zokier »

Ecco wrote: post #24
zokier wrote: post #22

Personally I feel like clamshell design would make lots of sense for these more advanced calculators. At the same footprint you could have lot bigger screen, and more/bigger buttons. As an added bonus the screen would be more readable when sitting on a desk. I wouldn't think the marginally added thikness would impact much something thats being carried around in backbacks most of time anyways. For some reason practica…

Full-blown qwerty-like keyboards are forbidden for a bunch of standardized tests such as the SAT.

Here is quick mockup of what I was trying to communicate with the last paragraph; 200LX form-factor with calculator keyboard:

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HFd9eyb.jpg

Of course the layout needs bit optimization instead of literally just copy-pasting the existing one.

Re: Numworks: open-source, Python-compatible handheld graphing calculator

#33

Post by tyingq »

dbcurtis wrote: post #6

It should be pointed out that this is Micropython, not the Python that you are probably used to. Micropython is great stuff, I’m a huge fan, but it is different from CPython in noticeable ways. They seem to have simply copied a source snapshot over; I’m not sure what that means for incorporating updates and fixes to the Python system. Maybe they needed a fork for some reason. I do wish their documentation gave a litt…

The device does appear to be capable of receiving updates: https://workshop.numworks.com

Concur on the credit thing though.

Re: Numworks: open-source, Python-compatible handheld graphing calculator

#34

Post by qubex »

antioedipus wrote: post #9

It's always amazed me how, in 2018, TI calculators with software and hardware from 10 years ago still cost $100+ dollars [0] and command a near monopoly in US secondary schools (which, I suppose, is why they still cost that much). For that price you can get a significantly more powerful and functional mobile phone [1] (see 24K of ram vs. 2GB, 96x64 screen vs. 720 x 1280)! The space needs competition, and I hope Numwo…

I’ve been using both a Texas Instruments Nspire and an HP Prime, and I definitely find the latter to be preferable as it’s leaps and bounds beyond the former in terms of symbolic algebra.

Re: Numworks: open-source, Python-compatible handheld graphing calculator

#36

Post by escherplex »

antioedipus wrote: post #9

It's always amazed me how, in 2018, TI calculators with software and hardware from 10 years ago still cost $100+ dollars [0] and command a near monopoly in US secondary schools (which, I suppose, is why they still cost that much). For that price you can get a significantly more powerful and functional mobile phone [1] (see 24K of ram vs. 2GB, 96x64 screen vs. 720 x 1280)! The space needs competition, and I hope Numwo…

Agree with you there. You may have habituated to TI-89s back at school (still have two) but by today's standards, graphics are super low-res and UI reminds you of trying to manipulate a rubik's cube. And yet it's still a goto on Amazon for about US$140.

Re: Numworks: open-source, Python-compatible handheld graphing calculator

#37

Post by cpks »

PurpleRamen wrote: post #30
kfogel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source being on GitHub does not equal "is open source". Restrictions on commercial use are incompatible with open source. The Open Source Initiative, which coined the term and evaluates licenses for compatibility with the Open Source Definition (see https://opensource.org/definition ), is crystal clear on this point: if your license has a field-of-use restriction -- such as a restriction on commercial use -- then it'…

It may not be "Free Source", but if the source is open in the sense if being accessable, then for normal people it is open source. One organization using words in a specific way, doesn't negate all other legit interpretations of those words. It's an unsolvable problem they created there.

Nope. Open Source is a trademark precisely to avoid this sort of misuse. It's not a "what it means to whomever" sort of deal.

That was done in part due to intentional (and damaging, if ultimately unsuccessful) efforts to undermine the meaning of terms like 'Free Software' by Microsoft back when the FSF was a fledgling movement and Microsoft was an evil empire.

I don't mean to imply negative things about the company. The license is still a heck of a lot better than fully proprietary -- I love the product in part for that reason -- but it's definitely not 'open source' or 'free software' as the headline implies.

(I don't think the company claims it is either)

Re: Numworks: open-source, Python-compatible handheld graphing calculator

#38

Post by cpks »

foo101 wrote: post #17
mehrdadn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of asserting the title is wrong, it would make sense to recognize that the title is correct, and that the discrepancy with your beliefs is simply a result of the fact that plenty of other people do not, in fact, take OSI's opinions as facts like you do.

The title is indeed wrong. There is no definition or usage of the word "open source" that is compatible with restriction of commercial usage. Never in the history of free software or open source software from the release of Donald Knuth's TeX in 1979, to the birth of FSF in 1985, or the formalization of OSD in 1998 was it ever acceptable to forbid commercial usage in something that is known as open source. The corrup…

To be fair, the "true origin" story is a little misleading. A bunch of douchebags wanted credit for Stallman's work and basically threw an underhanded hissy-cow to try to undermine him to co-opt his position. There was a pile of exaggerated (or often fabricated) stories thrown at the FSF. Commercial players came in to support the attack with a whole range of motives -- from wanting something more corporate to an "arm both sides" mentality to undercut the movement.

While I agree with your point, I'm not sure the alleged history supports it very well. It's a pretty ugly piece of the movement's history.

Now, that was two decades ago, those people are gone, and OSI is a very nice, good, and friendly organization today.

Re: Numworks: open-source, Python-compatible handheld graphing calculator

#39

Post by PurpleRamen »

cpks wrote: post #37
PurpleRamen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not be "Free Source", but if the source is open in the sense if being accessable, then for normal people it is open source. One organization using words in a specific way, doesn't negate all other legit interpretations of those words. It's an unsolvable problem they created there.

Nope. Open Source is a trademark precisely to avoid this sort of misuse. It's not a "what it means to whomever" sort of deal. That was done in part due to intentional (and damaging, if ultimately unsuccessful) efforts to undermine the meaning of terms like 'Free Software' by Microsoft back when the FSF was a fledgling movement and Microsoft was an evil empire. I don't mean to imply negative things about the company.…

I'm talking about casual language-usage, like this headline, not commercial usage. Open and source are regular words, and they still are regular words when used together. Trademarks can't force people to talk as they want, it can only force company to not sell everything as they wish.
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