John Dvorak: “Yesterday I was fired from PC Magazine” • Hacker News Board

Re: John Dvorak: “Yesterday I was fired from PC Magazine”

#171

Post by chris_wot » Sat, Sep 22, 2018, 11:23 PM UTC

dghughes wrote: post #136

ordinaryperson wrote: post #107

About 12 years ago I was working for a PC Magazine competitor when they cut the Managing Editor loose, a man who'd worked there 20+ years and was in his late 50s. I ran into him in the bathroom, tears in his eyes, asking me what he was going to do now? That this is how they reward decades of loyalty? Ironically that magazine, dedicated to predicting future technology trends, would go down the toilet some years later…

Thre's also the "faux friend" situation too. The people you work with have to get along with you but they are not your friends. If you're laid off you'll probably never heard from any of them ever again. And HR isn't your friend either. Many young people misunderstand the role of HR and believe it is a shoulder to cry on. Think of HR as just another company product or tool.

Indeed, but you must be careful not to be hostile to HR. You need to work out what they need to hear. So for instance, I was open to HR about some issues I was having but I was very careful to limit my information in a non-obvious way and I couched my explanations in a positive manner, and worked out what they needed to hear.

Ironically I wasn’t actually being dishonest (I just can’t do that) but I was very careful in what I said, and I was very careful not to be overly negative. And I did this when I had no other choice... it’s not something I would have done if I could have avoided it!

Re: John Dvorak: “Yesterday I was fired from PC Magazine”

#172

Post by chris_wot » Sat, Sep 22, 2018, 11:24 PM UTC

abandonliberty wrote: post #142

ordinaryperson wrote: post #107

About 12 years ago I was working for a PC Magazine competitor when they cut the Managing Editor loose, a man who'd worked there 20+ years and was in his late 50s. I ran into him in the bathroom, tears in his eyes, asking me what he was going to do now? That this is how they reward decades of loyalty? Ironically that magazine, dedicated to predicting future technology trends, would go down the toilet some years later…

It's just business. Obedience to authority can make people do terrible things, as shown in the Milgram experiment, and in business you have a whole chain of authorities.

The Milgram experiment has been thoroughly discredited.

Re: John Dvorak: “Yesterday I was fired from PC Magazine”

#173

Post by kheloker » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 1:04 AM UTC

gnulinux wrote: post #158

sumedh wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The email says outside columns, he probably was a contractor.

Does this matter on a personal level? He's been writing for PC Mag for more than 3 decades.

This is such a shallow comment. Regardless of how long he's written articles sponsored by PC magazine, you don't know the details of his contract or the relationship he had with that sponsorship. Why bother creating a comment if you add no content?

Re: John Dvorak: “Yesterday I was fired from PC Magazine”

#174

Post by qubax » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 1:10 AM UTC

redm wrote: post #133

ordinaryperson wrote: post #107

About 12 years ago I was working for a PC Magazine competitor when they cut the Managing Editor loose, a man who'd worked there 20+ years and was in his late 50s. I ran into him in the bathroom, tears in his eyes, asking me what he was going to do now? That this is how they reward decades of loyalty? Ironically that magazine, dedicated to predicting future technology trends, would go down the toilet some years later…

"Companies have no loyalty folks...neither should you." That's a broad brush to paint with; companies are just a group of people, not some inhuman construct. People make the decisions and just like every other aspect of life, some people care don't put their impact on others first, or can't because of circumstances. Not every company discards employees like garbage, and it's a lousy narrative to propagate.

> That's a broad brush to paint with; companies are just a group of people, not some inhuman construct.

Companies are a group of people hired to make money for shareholders. They owe loyalty to shareholders, not their workers. It's actually the fiduciary duty of the board and the execs.

> Not every company discards employees like garbage, and it's a lousy narrative to propagate.

Of course not. But the point is they will if they have to.

Companies exist to generate value for shareholders. Not to be nice to their workers. When times are good, you have nothing to worry about. But when things get tough, all bets are off.

Re: John Dvorak: “Yesterday I was fired from PC Magazine”

#175

Post by abandonliberty » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 1:14 AM UTC

chris_wot wrote: post #172

abandonliberty wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just business. Obedience to authority can make people do terrible things, as shown in the Milgram experiment, and in business you have a whole chain of authorities.

The Milgram experiment has been thoroughly discredited.

Source? The only item under validity on wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment#Validity) is a book, rather than a journal, and it's far from thoroughly discrediting.

Re: John Dvorak: “Yesterday I was fired from PC Magazine”

#176

Post by qubax » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 1:19 AM UTC

jack9 wrote: post #17

If you're an employee (no equity), be assured your employers don't care about you when the money starts to dry up. If you're overpriced for the revenue you bring in, you're gone. This is stuff everyone learned in the 90s bubble. Now the paper mags are falling over and he's acting surprised. SMH

> This is stuff everyone learned in the 90s bubble.

This is stuff every generation learns during every major recession. During the boom times, when business is good, the company treats its employees well and everyone thinks the company will always take care of them. Recession hits and reality smacks you right across the face.

Re: John Dvorak: “Yesterday I was fired from PC Magazine”

#177

Post by int_19h » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 1:50 AM UTC

paulmd wrote: post #105

busterarm wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... So the anti-war, anti-domestic spying, gay progressive duck is a conservative Trump-lover? What ducks are you looking at?

Oh, well, if he's gay then it's cool. /s Poltics makes for strange bedfellows. The enemy of my enemy can easily become my friend. There is a certain segment of the left that seamlessly transitioned from criticizing Democrats and American foreign policy into cheering Russian propagandizing and backing Russian foreign policy goals ("as a counterweight to American power" or similar). Greenwald is one of them. If his cri…

Conversely, someone who agrees with my enemy on something is not automatically my enemy as well. My enemies aren't always wrong, after all.

Re: John Dvorak: “Yesterday I was fired from PC Magazine”

#178

Post by int_19h » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 1:54 AM UTC

paulmd wrote: post #97

int_19h wrote: post #92

Wait, Greenwald is now considered faux pas?

Yeah, Greenwald has gone off the deep end over the last 2-3 years. He's pretty much paralleled the fall of Wikileaks, where they made some important points at the start but have fallen into the orbit of Russia specifically and anti-americanism generally. Whatever you think of the Democrats or American foreign policy, there really is no call for actually defending Russia and their foreign policy, or downplaying their…

I feel like it's only true if you just assign positive and negative points to stories, and then count the balance. But that model lacks too much nuance to be useful. You can be very much appalled at Russia, while also acknowledging that a lot of criticism that comes form the left is borderline conspiracy theory stuff with zero evidence to it. And if you're preaching to a specific audience, it might look imbalanced overall, because you don't waste time addressing the points on which your audience agrees with you anyway.

For example - and I'm saying this as a liberal - it is becoming standard fare to dismiss any criticism of any left-wing policy as "Russian bots". Does someone calling it out means that they reject the general notion that Russia employs paid shill accounts and bots for propaganda purposes? Of course not.

Re: John Dvorak: “Yesterday I was fired from PC Magazine”

#179

Post by Steko » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 2:29 AM UTC

Hamuko wrote: post #137

Steko wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dvorak's greatest hits: "nobody wants a mouse", "Steve Jobs going the way of pet rocks", "cable modems are a dead end", "the mac is dead", "ipod is a niche product", "wikipedia is a dead end", "podcasting is a dead end", "linux is a dead end", "time to short apple", "the iphone's a flop", "ipad's a flop", "apple watch's a flop", etc.

Apple Watch isn't a flop?

You could call the discontinued "edition" line (gold/ceramic) a flop but on the whole it seems fairly successful by watch/smartwatch standards if not by iphone standards.

Re: John Dvorak: “Yesterday I was fired from PC Magazine”

#180

Post by dghughes » Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 3:24 AM UTC

chris_wot wrote: post #171

dghughes wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thre's also the "faux friend" situation too. The people you work with have to get along with you but they are not your friends. If you're laid off you'll probably never heard from any of them ever again. And HR isn't your friend either. Many young people misunderstand the role of HR and believe it is a shoulder to cry on. Think of HR as just another company product or tool.

Indeed, but you must be careful not to be hostile to HR. You need to work out what they need to hear. So for instance, I was open to HR about some issues I was having but I was very careful to limit my information in a non-obvious way and I couched my explanations in a positive manner, and worked out what they needed to hear. Ironically I wasn’t actually being dishonest (I just can’t do that) but I was very careful i…

> Indeed, but you must be careful not to be hostile to HR.

I agree, but don't confide in them like a life long friend either. Keep it neutral like a job interview be professional and unemotional. Only state what you did, you said.

And ask HR for a follow up e-mail of any conversation you have with them asap.