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Brain Drain Within the EU?

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81–90 of 235 posts

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#81
Olivetti was a byword for industrial design in the sixties and seventies. Amazing styling.

I know someone who did years of study in the wool business she said fellow interns would slaughter small children for a job in the Italian fashion industry.

What goes around comes around. TEFL teachers get jobs in Italy...

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America has accepted massive, permanent subsidies from high productivity states to low ones. It’s one country, after all. Do the rich countries of the EU have the same appetite?

> Do the rich countries of the EU have the same appetite? As a matter of fact, Germany and the other EU countries do massively finance the poorer EU countries (per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_statistics#EU_b... ). Problem is corruption: EU funds too often get shunted sideways (e.g. for Hungary, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/12/how-hungarian-... ).

Those figures do not show massive inter-regional financing. All but 2 countries have net EU expenditures of +/- 250 Euro per person. Per capita spending by the EU is 215 Euro per person compared to federal government spending of $9,961 per person in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_...

The EU budget is 1% of GDP while the US federal budget is 20% GDP, 60% of which goes on social security / medicare / safety net programs. US federal spending acts as a huge inter-regional stabilizer.

Regional transfers must significantly increase within the Eurozone if the Euro is to avoid breaking up or immiserating huge numbers of citizens.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#83
post #74
post #18

I'm living in Italy at the moment, and I can watch the brain drain happening in real time. Every single university student I know here is looking to go to the UK or Germany when they graduate, almost without exception. I can't blame them at all, taxes are excessive and bureaucracy is excruciating here. Finding even a temporary job usually requires family connections, so the dumbest people with connections end up as m…

I'm living in Italy at the moment, and I can watch the brain drain happening in real time. Every single university student I know here is looking to go to the UK or Germany when they graduate, almost without exception. If you allow your gaze to de-focus slightly, you could think of Italy as contributing towards the EU as a whole. If it helps, just down the road from me is a helicopter manufacturer that used to be kno…

When I was growing up the Westlands and NAG apprenticeships and full-time jobs went to relatives of those who already worked there. Seems like the irregular book-keeping also persists

I only ever got temping jobs as a data entry clerk and I quit Yeovil to get a PhD and to work outside Europe

There are many truths

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#84
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Spaniard living in Germany... part of that very same problem. Anyways, "taxes and bureaucracy" is not the problem of the of the european south. In fact, taxes and bureaucracy are both way higher in Germany. The problems are more complex and historical. The EU economic crisis have been abused by right-wingers to argue that we have a too heavy social system. In fact, the demolition of the social system in the so…

Tax rates on middle income earners (15k to 30k euros annually) are higher in Italy, at least based on my limited research. If you have data to back up your claim that they are higher in Germany I'd love to see it. Either way that's not actually the core of the issue. In Germany, you get decent public transportation, great education and healthcare for your tax money. In Italy these things range from tolerable but inef…

It can be hard to compare actual tax rates as you have to also account for all the payroll taxes. For instance in France for a Software Engineer you would expect about 40~45% payroll taxes [1], and you will still pay income taxes (somewhere between 20% and 40%) on what remains [2]. They go towards different budgets (Social Security and State), so it makes sense that they are collected separately. I don't know how it is in Germany or Italy.

[1] Payroll taxes go towards the Social Security budget, which covers health insurance, retirement pensions, unemployment insurance, etc.

[2] Income taxes (and VAT) go towards the state budget, which covers debt interests payments, education, justice, police, military, etc.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#85
post #74
post #18

I'm living in Italy at the moment, and I can watch the brain drain happening in real time. Every single university student I know here is looking to go to the UK or Germany when they graduate, almost without exception. I can't blame them at all, taxes are excessive and bureaucracy is excruciating here. Finding even a temporary job usually requires family connections, so the dumbest people with connections end up as m…

I'm living in Italy at the moment, and I can watch the brain drain happening in real time. Every single university student I know here is looking to go to the UK or Germany when they graduate, almost without exception. If you allow your gaze to de-focus slightly, you could think of Italy as contributing towards the EU as a whole. If it helps, just down the road from me is a helicopter manufacturer that used to be kno…

Maybe they don’t want the opportunity to leave their home, family, friends, language and culture. Maybe they’d prefer that their country actually worked.

The fact that the Home Office don’t keep track of emigration, immigration or net migration does not mean no one else does.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#87
post #63
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, it's not your fault but I found this funny because, of course German is the top first language in the EU, it's EU's most populous country, by far. Romanian is the 7th and Dutch the 8th and so on, pretty much every country has its own national language, with only a few exceptions.

Don't forget Austria, those sneaky bastards also speak German, adding to the numbers :D

As an American who learned German, that feels more like a technicality than a reality.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#88
post #18

I'm living in Italy at the moment, and I can watch the brain drain happening in real time. Every single university student I know here is looking to go to the UK or Germany when they graduate, almost without exception. I can't blame them at all, taxes are excessive and bureaucracy is excruciating here. Finding even a temporary job usually requires family connections, so the dumbest people with connections end up as m…

High taxation and the perception of poor governance is a real mood killer.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#89
post #70
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so much at the high end (dev/engineer), though. Those $150k US salaries are also going to include generous health plans with little cost to the employee at most employers.

Having long term health problems is highly correlated with not being able to work, though, and losing insurance coverage. This is one of the things that surprises many people who think they're well covered with insurance, and then become ill, and it's one of the most insane things about our system of bundling work and health insurance.

Nobody pays attention to that disability insurance until they’re disabled.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#90
post #57
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the outside, the bureaucracy certainly seems like a big part of the problem. I've idly thought about moving to one of those countries and starting a company there because they are so nice . But one of the big things that kills those ideas are the horror stories about the horrible bureacracy, with non-deterministic results despite the same inputs. Starting a business is hard enough without spending time dealing w…

From observing Americans, at this point I'm fairly certain "bureaucracy" is their universal excuse to not get things done.

Who do you mean by "their"? And which Americans have you observed? It's not a monolithic culture.
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