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AI Company Accused of Using Humans to Fake Its AI

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Re: AI Company Accused of Using Humans to Fake Its AI

#61

Post by sonnyblarney »

tabbott wrote: post #8

A poorly-kept secret in Silicon Valley is that many "AI startups" started over the last few years are actually using humans, with a long-term plan to slowly decrease the amount of work the humans do using algorithms (generally based on machine learning, but not always) as well as more basic automation. In some cases they don't actually do any "AI" work for the company's first few years, and if they do, it's more like…

"The actual approach is a perfectly reasonable business strategy"

Only if the AI is going to work for sure.

There was a UK company, SpinVox, they were big 10 years ago, they did voice recognition of your phone calls and sent you a text. They raised huge, like 100M pounds. Granted not AI.

Turns out they were doing most of their transcription manually with hopes of going automated.

It was a huge blow up, it boiled to fraud.

This is close to Elizabeth Holmes territory kind of storyline.

So it's possible to do as you say, but there needs to be transparency.

Also, AI is an approach, not a market ... so I think they're going to end up like transistors or some other kind of thing, the knowledge will be embedded within companies, and not so many pure AI companies.

Re: AI Company Accused of Using Humans to Fake Its AI

#62

Post by TomMarius »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #61
tabbott wrote: post #8

A poorly-kept secret in Silicon Valley is that many "AI startups" started over the last few years are actually using humans, with a long-term plan to slowly decrease the amount of work the humans do using algorithms (generally based on machine learning, but not always) as well as more basic automation. In some cases they don't actually do any "AI" work for the company's first few years, and if they do, it's more like…

"The actual approach is a perfectly reasonable business strategy" Only if the AI is going to work for sure. There was a UK company, SpinVox, they were big 10 years ago, they did voice recognition of your phone calls and sent you a text. They raised huge, like 100M pounds. Granted not AI. Turns out they were doing most of their transcription manually with hopes of going automated. It was a huge blow up, it boiled to f…

I don't think that there is a requirement of it working - just like there isn't a requirement of being successful.

However you have to be honest to investors, which I assume they weren't and thus commited fraud.

Re: AI Company Accused of Using Humans to Fake Its AI

#63

Post by TeMPOraL »

sorokod wrote: post #56
cuboidGoat wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking around the world, lying seems to have been redefined as; "a perfectly reasonable business strategy" . One of the biggest shocks I had going from childhood to adulthood was the sudden flip between people telling you that you have to be honest and the people now telling you to stop being honest. And the people who had previously told you that you must be honest, they tell you "oh yes, that's work" , when you go…

Life is messy an there are grey areas. That doesn't mean that the abstract concept has no meaning at all, Theranos is an example.

Sure, but as a society we've already legitimized lying, in form of e.g. ad industry, and at the same time, we're in total denial of that fact.

I regret my parents never taught me we're living in softly adversarial world. People are not going to kill you, but businesses are out to fleece you.

Re: AI Company Accused of Using Humans to Fake Its AI

#64

Post by cuboidGoat »

sorokod wrote: post #56
cuboidGoat wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking around the world, lying seems to have been redefined as; "a perfectly reasonable business strategy" . One of the biggest shocks I had going from childhood to adulthood was the sudden flip between people telling you that you have to be honest and the people now telling you to stop being honest. And the people who had previously told you that you must be honest, they tell you "oh yes, that's work" , when you go…

Life is messy an there are grey areas. That doesn't mean that the abstract concept has no meaning at all, Theranos is an example.

Theranos is an example of commercial dishonesty leading to the top of political power and even snares people such as Mattis, who is possibly the only individual in the current US executive with any kind of reputation for being honest.

And the apparent message from that debacle isn't; "be honest", rather it is; "being dishonest nets billions, try not to get caught though".

Re: AI Company Accused of Using Humans to Fake Its AI

#65

Post by roymurdock »

tabbott wrote: post #8

A poorly-kept secret in Silicon Valley is that many "AI startups" started over the last few years are actually using humans, with a long-term plan to slowly decrease the amount of work the humans do using algorithms (generally based on machine learning, but not always) as well as more basic automation. In some cases they don't actually do any "AI" work for the company's first few years, and if they do, it's more like…

nobody knows how to do actual AI because the complexity of the human brain with all of its sensory inputs/memory is light years beyond what we can create with chips and ram. even machine learning, which is meant to be a step below AI (machine...learning things) has been passed over in the hype cycle because most of it is just basic linear regression that saves a few companies 5% in costs per year. not a brand new field that grows revenues and create businesses. if anyone has seen any legit AI companies/applications please point me towards them so I can regain some faith and perspective on what people are calling AI these days

Re: AI Company Accused of Using Humans to Fake Its AI

#66

Post by HeadsUpHigh »

roymurdock wrote: post #65
tabbott wrote: post #8

A poorly-kept secret in Silicon Valley is that many "AI startups" started over the last few years are actually using humans, with a long-term plan to slowly decrease the amount of work the humans do using algorithms (generally based on machine learning, but not always) as well as more basic automation. In some cases they don't actually do any "AI" work for the company's first few years, and if they do, it's more like…

nobody knows how to do actual AI because the complexity of the human brain with all of its sensory inputs/memory is light years beyond what we can create with chips and ram. even machine learning, which is meant to be a step below AI (machine...learning things) has been passed over in the hype cycle because most of it is just basic linear regression that saves a few companies 5% in costs per year. not a brand new fie…

Image recognition and manipulation is one of the few big consumer oriented applications I can think of. If you manage to do it in real time from a camera feed you got very high quality AR.

Re: AI Company Accused of Using Humans to Fake Its AI

#67

Post by hef19898 »

eksemplar wrote: post #32

Being in the public sector, I have the joy of sitting in a lot of meetings with companies and consultants that want to sell us AI for analytics and prediction. I’m still unconvinced. The closest I’ve seen to anything useful was Watson, and all it really offered was stuff we’ve been doing for years. I mean, we have 5 people working with data and building models, and Watson could maybe automate some of that, but you’d…

The worst example I have seen in that regard was some kind of ride sharing thing. The core function apparently was route optimization based on multiple destinations for multiple passengers. They aimed to offer 30 minute time frames for arrival and departure. In an environment where complain about a 5 minute delay for busses. Quite unsurprisingly they failed in the end, still got funding so.

Re: AI Company Accused of Using Humans to Fake Its AI

#68

Post by hef19898 »

antpls wrote: post #43
eksemplar wrote: post #32

Being in the public sector, I have the joy of sitting in a lot of meetings with companies and consultants that want to sell us AI for analytics and prediction. I’m still unconvinced. The closest I’ve seen to anything useful was Watson, and all it really offered was stuff we’ve been doing for years. I mean, we have 5 people working with data and building models, and Watson could maybe automate some of that, but you’d…

In my opinion, we cannot compare blockchain and AI : blockchains are a type of data structure based on hashes, while AI is a wide and fuzzy concept with different meanings over the years. Process automations and "AI" (let's say, complex autonomous systems) are parts of a bigger picture which is the digitalization of the society. Sometime, they are sold as a drop-in replacement for current human processes, but it actu…

I understood the OP in that he put AI and blockchain in the same hype / bullshit trap category.

Re: AI Company Accused of Using Humans to Fake Its AI

#69

Post by hef19898 »

HeadsUpHigh wrote: post #66
roymurdock wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nobody knows how to do actual AI because the complexity of the human brain with all of its sensory inputs/memory is light years beyond what we can create with chips and ram. even machine learning, which is meant to be a step below AI (machine...learning things) has been passed over in the hype cycle because most of it is just basic linear regression that saves a few companies 5% in costs per year. not a brand new fie…

Image recognition and manipulation is one of the few big consumer oriented applications I can think of. If you manage to do it in real time from a camera feed you got very high quality AR.

And faked live-feeds. But that is an inherent risk of technology.

Re: AI Company Accused of Using Humans to Fake Its AI

#70

Post by _msy_ »

roymurdock wrote: post #65
tabbott wrote: post #8

A poorly-kept secret in Silicon Valley is that many "AI startups" started over the last few years are actually using humans, with a long-term plan to slowly decrease the amount of work the humans do using algorithms (generally based on machine learning, but not always) as well as more basic automation. In some cases they don't actually do any "AI" work for the company's first few years, and if they do, it's more like…

nobody knows how to do actual AI because the complexity of the human brain with all of its sensory inputs/memory is light years beyond what we can create with chips and ram. even machine learning, which is meant to be a step below AI (machine...learning things) has been passed over in the hype cycle because most of it is just basic linear regression that saves a few companies 5% in costs per year. not a brand new fie…

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