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A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

bbc.co.uk

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Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#21

Post by browsercoin »

jdc wrote: post #18
api_or_ipa wrote: post #11

I think it's important to stress the fact that DMT does not feel like being thrown in a meat-grinder, or being impaled in a car accident, or any other grisly way to die. Really, it might be more correct to say "Death might feel like a DMT trip" because many have experienced a DMT trip, but it's not every day you get to experience death. Of course, it makes for a less interesting title.

People experience death (and psychoactives) in a variety of ways, and its metaphorical usage reflects that. The meat-grinder sense maps better to stimulants (ie., caffeine, amphetamine, etc) whereas the exhausting, perhaps harrowing and enlightening sense of death is what we tend to experience with the psychedelics.

back in the day I experimented with psilocybin mushrooms and experienced what is called 'ego death'. basically, you lose a sense of self and identity. You are literally a blank slate. It was a surreal experience and I felt panicky like 'oh shit i think im dead but im still concious'.

Before I reached this state I was seeing math formulas everywhere. Basically when my internal thoughts stopped, that is I was experiencing reality in the rawest form, the only truth we have in the universe is math, in all shapes and forms, we live inside the 'body of god' that is math, but of course, so extremely complex to express in our 3rd dimensional world.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#22

Post by dkersten »

breatheoften wrote: post #13

I just associate DMT with nausea — and have no desire to repeat that pain. I did an ayuasca ceremony and only managed to drink one dose (you are encouraged to drink a lot more) — but my body felt so awful and all the evidence suggested the pretty obvious cause that there was no part of me that wanted to drink more and I felt completely fine with my decision to stop.

ayuasca and smoked DMT are too very different experiences.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#23

Post by ggm »

Can anyone give a reason in darwinian terms, for why brains would evolve a feeling of detachment and contentment near death? I can't project a selfish-gene reason.

Maybe, if you hypothesise its in the 'I die, so others live' space, its like altruistic behaviour and favours the group genome, not the individual

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#25

Post by mjg59 »

ggm wrote: post #23

Can anyone give a reason in darwinian terms, for why brains would evolve a feeling of detachment and contentment near death? I can't project a selfish-gene reason. Maybe, if you hypothesise its in the 'I die, so others live' space, its like altruistic behaviour and favours the group genome, not the individual

Unless it has an impact on your ability to reproduce, there's no reason at all. Lots of biology is just a consequence of implementation details.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#27

Post by drak0n1c »

ggm wrote: post #23

Can anyone give a reason in darwinian terms, for why brains would evolve a feeling of detachment and contentment near death? I can't project a selfish-gene reason. Maybe, if you hypothesise its in the 'I die, so others live' space, its like altruistic behaviour and favours the group genome, not the individual

Sometimes there is no reason. That might just be symptoms of gradual neuronal failure. It’s unlikely that the sensation of dying significantly increases or decreases the likelihood of passing on one’s lineage, except maybe imparting a peaceful impression on family around you.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#28

Post by westoncb »

ggm wrote: post #23

Can anyone give a reason in darwinian terms, for why brains would evolve a feeling of detachment and contentment near death? I can't project a selfish-gene reason. Maybe, if you hypothesise its in the 'I die, so others live' space, its like altruistic behaviour and favours the group genome, not the individual

It could be social. Imagine the family surrounding the deathbed of an elder, dying relative. It's probably the case that the relative is observed closely while 'crossing over,' and depending on the relatives' interpretation of what's happening to their dying loved one, they may be left at peace or in turmoil. So maybe DMT has to do with creating the desired appearance to communicate to loved ones at the deathbed.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#29

Post by TaupeRanger »

ggm wrote: post #23

Can anyone give a reason in darwinian terms, for why brains would evolve a feeling of detachment and contentment near death? I can't project a selfish-gene reason. Maybe, if you hypothesise its in the 'I die, so others live' space, its like altruistic behaviour and favours the group genome, not the individual

Well we don't really understand the nature of "feelings", so the answers are going to be very speculative. But a better question might be: why do we feel contentment at all? Why isn't it all just fear and rage all the time, with certain things lessening the fear and rage, like eating, pooping, and copulating? After all, if we avoid death and reproduce, the genes get passed on - evolution doesn't care about feelings. This entirely sidesteps discussion about the epiphenomenalality of conscious experience and how/whether it can be "causal" in any sense.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#30

Post by yes_man »

ggm wrote: post #23

Can anyone give a reason in darwinian terms, for why brains would evolve a feeling of detachment and contentment near death? I can't project a selfish-gene reason. Maybe, if you hypothesise its in the 'I die, so others live' space, its like altruistic behaviour and favours the group genome, not the individual

Maybe the human (or generally any conscious nervous system) existence is such an anxious experience that finally realizing it was all a trip that is ending is such a giant relief that the imminent death feels like a warm home? Not to sound too bleak but it would explain the contentment
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