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Southern California just saw its longest streak of bad air in decades

latimes.com

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Re: Southern California just saw its longest streak of bad air in decades

#41

Post by thinelvis »

Truck traffic in LA is by far the problem, not so much the car traffic (though that is horrible, based on the population).

Ships come into Long Beach, the containers are offloaded, the trucks begin a lumbering journey to points East. Belching all the way.

I'm not making up the claim. California rules put in place over ten years ago had trucks retrofitted or whatever, and this change to TRUCKS ONLY was like removing 30 MILLION cars from California roads. There are not 30 million trucks in California, though sometimes it appears so.

http://4cleanair.org/DieselTrucks.pdf

Re: Southern California just saw its longest streak of bad air in decades

#42

Post by stevenwoo »

NickBusey wrote: post #38
jpmattia wrote: post #37

If interested, here is a link to the air quality index, as measured by purple air monitors: https://www.purpleair.com/map#11/34.0244/-118.4531 The map extends worldwide, but only reports data from those who have purchased their monitors.

Whoa, what's going on in Utah? https://www.purpleair.com/map#6.74/39.975/-111.145

Geography and local weather patterns, similar to Mexico City in that regard where the city sits surrounded mostly by mountains and frequent broadly local temperature conditions trap air in the valley.

Re: Southern California just saw its longest streak of bad air in decades

#43

Post by akoncius »

irrational wrote: post #31
Panino wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live has elevated levels of both thanks to wildfires. It was so bad last summer that at one point, I could barely see the house across the street. Something's got to give.

Have you considered moving? There are lots of places that don't have these kinds of air problems.

but weather is so nice here /s

Re: Southern California just saw its longest streak of bad air in decades

#44

Post by nradov »

bsder wrote: post #28
refurb wrote: post #8

Los Angeles is unfortunate that due to the surrounding geography, thermal inversions are common where air close to the surface is trapped and doesn't circulate. That amplifies the air quality problems compared to say SF where the off-shore breeze keeps the air relatively clean.

This is relatively straightforward to solve. You take the existing CA gas tax and have it increase a couple of pennies every single month indefinitely. Gasoline in California is still about 1/2 the price in Europe. By making the tax small and gradual, everybody can PLAN around the fact that gas is going up instead of the dislocation from when gasoline prices whipsaw. The problem is that we have zero political will to…

There's only a loose correlation between gasoline consumption and smog emissions. Newer passenger vehicles are very clean (not counting CO₂ emissions which are a separate issue). The smog problem is caused by diesel engines, and older gasoline engines. Those need to be banned, or bought back and crushed (like with the "Cash for Clunkers" program several years ago).

Re: Southern California just saw its longest streak of bad air in decades

#45

Post by chimeracoder »

bsder wrote: post #28
refurb wrote: post #8

Los Angeles is unfortunate that due to the surrounding geography, thermal inversions are common where air close to the surface is trapped and doesn't circulate. That amplifies the air quality problems compared to say SF where the off-shore breeze keeps the air relatively clean.

This is relatively straightforward to solve. You take the existing CA gas tax and have it increase a couple of pennies every single month indefinitely. Gasoline in California is still about 1/2 the price in Europe. By making the tax small and gradual, everybody can PLAN around the fact that gas is going up instead of the dislocation from when gasoline prices whipsaw. The problem is that we have zero political will to…

> This is relatively straightforward to solve. You take the existing CA gas tax and have it increase a couple of pennies every single month indefinitely. Gasoline in California is still about 1/2 the price in Europe.

A tax on gas doesn't solve the surrounding geography.

Emissions in LA have plummeted since the 1970s, but while air quality has improved in that time, it has not improved as fast as the drop in emissions would predict based on other cities. That's because of the surrounding geography - air pollution gets trapped there and doesn't clear out as easily.

Re: Southern California just saw its longest streak of bad air in decades

#46

Post by seppin »

bsder wrote: post #28
refurb wrote: post #8

Los Angeles is unfortunate that due to the surrounding geography, thermal inversions are common where air close to the surface is trapped and doesn't circulate. That amplifies the air quality problems compared to say SF where the off-shore breeze keeps the air relatively clean.

This is relatively straightforward to solve. You take the existing CA gas tax and have it increase a couple of pennies every single month indefinitely. Gasoline in California is still about 1/2 the price in Europe. By making the tax small and gradual, everybody can PLAN around the fact that gas is going up instead of the dislocation from when gasoline prices whipsaw. The problem is that we have zero political will to…

> Gasoline in California is still about 1/2 the price in Europe.

And already the highest priced in the US

Re: Southern California just saw its longest streak of bad air in decades

#47

Post by Theodores »

Theodores wrote: post #18

Can anyone summarise the article for those of us in Europe? We can't get the LA Times here. What has changed this year - wild fires? Or is it the problem of ten million cars pissing in the pool with no wind to clear the air. Do tell.

"Environmentalists and community groups say the string of smoggy days is a symptom of insufficient regulation. They criticize air quality officials as too quick to blame the weather when they could be doing more to crack down on some of the biggest hubs of pollution, including truck-choked warehouses and ports and oil refineries."

That is okay then, you down voting types keep on driving your cars whilst you blame the pollution on others.

Re: Southern California just saw its longest streak of bad air in decades

#48

Post by blue11 »

thinelvis wrote: post #41

Truck traffic in LA is by far the problem, not so much the car traffic (though that is horrible, based on the population). Ships come into Long Beach, the containers are offloaded, the trucks begin a lumbering journey to points East. Belching all the way. I'm not making up the claim. California rules put in place over ten years ago had trucks retrofitted or whatever, and this change to TRUCKS ONLY was like removing 3…

The ports of LA and LB handle something like 40% of the US-China trade.

There are "clean trucks" requirements, but that can be enforced only in the immediate vicinity of the port. I don't have a source but there have been reports that the clean trucks shuttle back and forth between the port and nearby places where the cargo can be transferred to other trucks.

Re: Southern California just saw its longest streak of bad air in decades

#49

Post by greglindahl »

refurb wrote: post #8

Los Angeles is unfortunate that due to the surrounding geography, thermal inversions are common where air close to the surface is trapped and doesn't circulate. That amplifies the air quality problems compared to say SF where the off-shore breeze keeps the air relatively clean.

In the SF Bay Area, there are a lot of parts (like the entire South Bay) that have frequent inversions and usually no off-shore breezes, due to the coastal mountains. In fact we've had a big run of bad air quality days.

With a few of the recent fires to the north of SF we've also had the charming situation in the South Bay of ocean breezes blowing the smoke from the fires over us... it was blowing down the cost offshore of SF, and then inland.

SF != SF Bay Area

Re: Southern California just saw its longest streak of bad air in decades

#50

Post by el_benhameen »

seppin wrote: post #46
bsder wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is relatively straightforward to solve. You take the existing CA gas tax and have it increase a couple of pennies every single month indefinitely. Gasoline in California is still about 1/2 the price in Europe. By making the tax small and gradual, everybody can PLAN around the fact that gas is going up instead of the dislocation from when gasoline prices whipsaw. The problem is that we have zero political will to…

> Gasoline in California is still about 1/2 the price in Europe. And already the highest priced in the US

This is frequently asserted, but it is untrue. Close, but still not true.

https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/

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