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Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#131

Post by pcwalton »

skybrian wrote: post #122
pcwalton wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is whistleblowing.

That's unclear. Google hasn't launched, so they haven't done anything wrong yet, as far as users in China are concerned. This is all internal politics, which seems to be getting increasingly nasty.

If you leak your company's plans to rob a bank to the press, you're still a whistleblower, even if the bank hasn't been robbed yet. Whistleblowers are under no moral or professional obligation to let people become victims before coming forward.

If supplying search history to a government known to imprison or torture dissidents is an immoral activity, then bringing it to light is whistleblowing. You can make a cogent argument that it's morally fine to do that, but you can't simultaneously say that facilitating spying is immoral and that it's unprofessional/immoral to reveal plans to that effect.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#132

Post by qubax »

jaclaz wrote: post #10

>Emails demanding deletion of the memo contained “pixel trackers” that notified human resource managers when their messages had been read, recipients determined. This seems like the worst part (not that the rest is not bad), anyone has an idea of what this "pixel trackers" are and how they actually work?

> This seems like the worst part (not that the rest is not bad), anyone has an idea of what this "pixel trackers" are and how they actually work?

This is very old tech. "Invisible" image linked to a url. Pretty much every ad email has pixel trackers for data ( impressions, etc ). It's used heavily in marketing.

Not sure why google would use such primitive tech. There are better ways to verify that an message has been opened and read.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#133

Post by snaky »

prepend wrote: post #88

I guess we’ll get a new blog post from Pichai about the people he fired because tracking users against their wishes, exposing data against their wishes, and compelling employees to delete their own files “contrary to our basic values and our Code of Conduct.” [0] Fortunately Google is an ethical company and not hypocritical when it comes to very important issues. Maybe this will be positive and result in new US law l…

> prevents US companies and their subsidiaries from bribing officials in other countries

That's how US lost Africa, and China acquired it.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#134

Post by skybrian »

pcwalton wrote: post #131
skybrian wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's unclear. Google hasn't launched, so they haven't done anything wrong yet, as far as users in China are concerned. This is all internal politics, which seems to be getting increasingly nasty.

If you leak your company's plans to rob a bank to the press, you're still a whistleblower, even if the bank hasn't been robbed yet. Whistleblowers are under no moral or professional obligation to let people become victims before coming forward. If supplying search history to a government known to imprison or torture dissidents is an immoral activity, then bringing it to light is whistleblowing. You can make a cogent…

That would be a better argument if they were planning to do something illegal.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#135

Post by jbigelow76 »

mercer wrote: post #130
jbigelow76 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasons as to why they do it defend the reasons as to how they do it, the end justifies the means.

That doesn't answer JoshMnem's question. Justifies the means to whom? If the answer is google, I'm not sure what the point of your comment was, as that's pretty obvious...

Yes, my answer was google, I found the question to be as obvious as you found my answer to be.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#136

Post by 394549 »

Aunche wrote: post #121
394549 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about we hear from some Chinese people about how they feel about the developments? How open do you think a typical Chinese person is going to be with you about how they think about their government's censorship? Unless they know and trust you really well, they're probably not going to criticize it to you even if they hate it . There are strong Chinese cultural taboos against criticizing your in-group in front o…

I know plenty of Chinese people who aren't a fan of censorship, and none of them have anything bad to say about Google. > The Chinese government has shown increasing willingness to strong-arm Western companies actions in the West by holding their Chinese operations hostage. If that's the real reason everyone is angry, then they should support Trump's tariffs and boycott everything manufactured in China.

> If that's the real reason everyone is angry, then they should support Trump's tariffs and boycott everything manufactured in China.

They very well may. However, it's not yet possible to "boycott everything manufactured in China" without going off to live in the woods somewhere, so that's not a realistic standard to hold anyone to.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#137

Post by IBM »

bduerst wrote: post #127
IBM wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not according to Apple [1]: >Apple says the joint venture does not mean that China has any kind of “backdoor” into user data and that Apple alone – not its Chinese partner – will control the encryption keys. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh...

That was back in February. Since then there's been some shuffling of the companies who own the servers with the keys so that China now has access. From July 2018: >Fast forward to today: China Telecom, a government owned telco, is taking over the iCloud data from Guizhou-Cloud Big Data. This essentially means that a state-owned firm now has access to all the iCloud data China-based users store, such as photos, notes,…

That report doesn't say that Apple no longer retains control of the keys.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#138

Post by [deleted] »

tclancy wrote: post #115
amckinlay wrote: post #109

[flagged]

Comment about stopped clock, including unnecessary quotation marks. Using political label as a meaning-free pejorative. “Connecting” it all with yarn on an old National Geographic map and a bit of swearing to indicate This Is Important. Discourse in the year 2018.

[deleted]

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#139

Post by whamlastxmas »

echevil wrote: post #108
dustinmoorenet wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Google doesn't come to your house, take you in for questioning and then pressuring you into confessing that you did something wrong which disturbed civil order. Stories about what happens in China: https://chinachange.org/

They would still send your data to the government when there is a subpoena I suppose

There is a big relationship between Google and the US government for the sake of retrieving user information and logs for legal purposes.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#140

Post by jessaustin »

zelon88 wrote: post #56
tomlu wrote: post #43

Disclaimer: I work for Google. I also think that there is an anti-Google bias on hacker news, holding Google to a standard not applied to others and taking any excuse to roll out the same old tired rants in response to almost any Google post (DAE Google Reader etc). If what I read is true then this is the first thing that has truly rocked my confidence that the company generally tries to do the right thing (while mak…

> Disclaimer: I work for Google. I also think that there is an anti-Google bias on hacker news, holding Google to a standard not applied to others and taking any excuse to roll out the same old tired rants in response to almost any Google post (DAE Google Reader etc). I hate to break this to you, but the anti-Google bias is well beyond HN. Google is pissing off conservatives who think you censor them, civil rights ac…

Is this the Google complaint line? I didn't know this existed! I'd like to complain about the stupid "Al Jazeera is funded in whole or in part by the Qatari government", "teleSUR is funded in whole or in part by the Latin American government" [where is the capital of that government?], etc. messages I have to see every time I watch a trustworthy news program. Why don't those messages show up when viewing dreck like CNN and Fox News?
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