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Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#81

Post by prepend »

jaclaz wrote: post #10

>Emails demanding deletion of the memo contained “pixel trackers” that notified human resource managers when their messages had been read, recipients determined. This seems like the worst part (not that the rest is not bad), anyone has an idea of what this "pixel trackers" are and how they actually work?

This is the reason why you never enable images in your email client.

Gmail sucks a bit because it always enables certain images in email and that means that google pixel trackers are really hard to block if you use google mail. If I were an employee, I’d switch to a non-google email client.

The privacy issue is problematic, but their functionality is also buggy. Untrained users will misinterpret them as they can get triggered by previews or other functions beyond just reading the message.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#82

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

nil_pointer wrote: post #24
d4l3k wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pixel trackers are just small embedded images in the email that when they are fetched from a server, the server logs it. Pretty simple way to track whether or not someone has opened an email. It's my understanding that gmail however downloads all images and then serves them from Google servers to avoid this issue entirely. Traditional email clients like Outlook/Thunderbird are susceptible to this kind of attack. That…

Variants of "pixel trackers" still work fine on Gmail despite this. To this day a lot of marketing, recruiters and others are tracking when you open their message on Gmail.

Even with images disabled?

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#83

Post by [deleted] »

thisgoodlife wrote: post #75
lph wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that this appeasement will make Google a contender in China is blazingly ignorant of Chinese politics. No foreign company will ever be allowed to gain significant market share; it would be seen as a national security threat. The only way for Google would be to forge an equal partnership with a Chinese tech giant---Tencent, Alibaba, Huawei, or maybe one of the two dominant cell carriers. Google is selling out…

That's bs. Apple is making billions from China each year without any bs partnership.

[deleted]

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#84

Post by lolc »

> “Leadership misled engineers working on [Dragonfly] about the nature of their work, depriving them of moral agency,” said a Google employee who read the memo.

Lying to our own colleagues now are we? The end justifies the means I guess. Wait, what was the end again?

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#85

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

oh-kumudo wrote: post #69
Havoc wrote: post #31

This whole thing feels like it's going to hit Google straight in the face like a ton of bricks. At a minimum there is some serious streisand effect potential.

I don't think so. Half of US's electorate already see Google as hypocrite. Only ones will be truly annoyed is a certain fraction of its own employees.

Computers are magic.

Half of the US electorate is completely ignorant about what's going on. The people that do know have no sway over a self-serving Congress.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#86

Post by kyrra »

thisgoodlife wrote: post #75
lph wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that this appeasement will make Google a contender in China is blazingly ignorant of Chinese politics. No foreign company will ever be allowed to gain significant market share; it would be seen as a national security threat. The only way for Google would be to forge an equal partnership with a Chinese tech giant---Tencent, Alibaba, Huawei, or maybe one of the two dominant cell carriers. Google is selling out…

That's bs. Apple is making billions from China each year without any bs partnership.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/17587304/apple-icloud-chi...

For iCloud, Apple partnered with a local Chinese entity.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#87

Post by tomlagier »

Aunche wrote: post #72

All this outrage about about Google wanting to censor search in China is even less productive than men being angry at women having abortions. At least with abortions, men can claim to speak for the fetus. Even if Google expands makes a censored search engine for China, at worst it maintains the status quo. I'm sure you could come up with a philosophical argument to why it's bad, but it definitely has no weight over m…

I agree so much. How about we hear from some Chinese people about how they feel about the developments?

The few comments I've seen have expressed excitement and highlighted the extreme issues with Baidu. The outrage seems to be coming entirely from people with no real stake in this news.

I absolutely believe there's a discussion worth having about the extent capitulating to authoritarian demands is morally and practically allowable, but to dismiss it out of hand because it conflicts with Western notions of privacy while ignoring the cultural realities in China seems shortsighted.

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#88

Post by prepend »

I guess we’ll get a new blog post from Pichai about the people he fired because tracking users against their wishes, exposing data against their wishes, and compelling employees to delete their own files “contrary to our basic values and our Code of Conduct.” [0]

Fortunately Google is an ethical company and not hypocritical when it comes to very important issues.

Maybe this will be positive and result in new US law like the foreign corrupt practices act of 1977 [1] that prevents US companies and their subsidiaries from bribing officials in other countries, even when local law allows it. So forcing US companies to follow the minimal US laws protecting privacy even if to comply with other laws will be a net positive for humanity.

[0] https://www.blog.google/outreach-initiatives/diversity/note-...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#89

Post by throwaway2048 »

nradov wrote: post #68
devoply wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fact of the matter is that there is a Chinese internet and a US internet. Going forward there will be a Chinese internet, that some authoritarian countries will adopt that are a part of the Chinese sphere of influence. American companies, and the American government through them want a foothold on that internet. This is the only way for them to do so. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/20/eric-schmidt-ex-google-ceo-p...

Are you certain that's the only way for them to do so? I suspect that smart people could find effective technical means to undermine and circumvent the Great Firewall of China.

how long do you think china is going to tolerate Google doing that?

Re: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans to Closely Track Search Users in China

#90

Post by 2600 »

thisgoodlife wrote: post #75
lph wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that this appeasement will make Google a contender in China is blazingly ignorant of Chinese politics. No foreign company will ever be allowed to gain significant market share; it would be seen as a national security threat. The only way for Google would be to forge an equal partnership with a Chinese tech giant---Tencent, Alibaba, Huawei, or maybe one of the two dominant cell carriers. Google is selling out…

That's bs. Apple is making billions from China each year without any bs partnership.

Regarding iCloud, Apple has made decisions to bring Chinese iCloud in compliance with Chinese regulations. Chinese iCloud accounts, data, and encryption keys are stored with a Chinese firm overseen by the Chinese government.
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