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A Soviet-era airport, once the height of luxury, faces demolition in Armenia

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Re: A Soviet-era airport, once the height of luxury, faces demolition in Armenia

#51

Post by raverbashing »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #17
raverbashing wrote: post #4

Luxury and Soviet Era really don't go together. See Berlin Schönefeld for an example.

Never been to Schönefeld, but even Tegel is a bit of a disgrace for the main airport of the German capital. There's always Berlin Brandenburg, which should open any day now.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Brandenburg_Airport

> but even Tegel is a bit of a disgrace for the main airport of the German capital

Yes. A total disappointment. And the "main" terminals are the worse, the low cost ones are less crappy.

Re: A Soviet-era airport, once the height of luxury, faces demolition in Armenia

#52

Post by toyg »

bitL wrote: post #24
toyg wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Warsaw Pact was an alliance of nominally-independent states. They all relied on the USSR in one way or another, but they had their internal dynamics and cultural differences. Their architectural efforts were often manneristic towards Soviet styles, rather than original.

I think USSR relied on many of them actually. Eastern Germany and Czechoslovakia provided best tech and foreign currency source, and the whole area between Germany and USSR was planned to get nuked in case of an all-out war between NATO and USSR, in order to protect USSR's mainland. Fun times for Central European countries I guess, getting shafted from both sides continuously for centuries.

It wasn’t “centuries”, it was barely 50 years. The USSR itself didn’t last 80 years, and before WWII most countries in the area (with the notable exception of Poland) were just fine - in fact, they were pretty happy after the fall of the Austrian Empire. Warsaw Pact countries were still relatively free to chart their own path in non-military matters until the Prague Spring of 1968.

Russian influence on the region is a related but separate issue, but let’s not paint central Europe as some sort of perennial victim.

Re: A Soviet-era airport, once the height of luxury, faces demolition in Armenia

#53

Post by pavel_lishin »

cpursley wrote: post #39

As a westerner living in Russia, I love seeing all the old soviet stuff (despite the dark history). Ok, maybe not the soviet apartment blocks. But many of the statues and brutalist structures are very unique and I truly hope they're preserved. None of the new construction here is nearly as interesting.

I grew up literally behind the Moscow Academy of Sciences, and loved looking at that building every day.

It was also fun when they started tearing down the statues; just these huge, metal bodies and heads laying in the courtyards for us kids to clamber over.

Re: A Soviet-era airport, once the height of luxury, faces demolition in Armenia

#54

Post by toyg »

lb1lf wrote: post #37
CaptainZapp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never been to Schönefeld, but even Tegel is a bit of a disgrace for the main airport of the German capital. There's always Berlin Brandenburg, which should open any day now.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Brandenburg_Airport

-In Tegel's defense, it was built when area was definitely at a premium, seeing as it was in former West Berlin which simply didn't have the luxury of expanding into the surrounding farmland. The other West Berlin Airport - Tempelhof - was marvellous, though. Built during Weimar Republic years when air travel was for the wealthy few, the terminal was (and is!) as monumental as a palace.

Tempelhof was started during Weimar, but it was rebuilt by the Nazi government, which is why it looks how it looks (and why nobody wants to reuse it, given a chance).

Re: A Soviet-era airport, once the height of luxury, faces demolition in Armenia

#55

Post by geggam »

cpursley wrote: post #39

As a westerner living in Russia, I love seeing all the old soviet stuff (despite the dark history). Ok, maybe not the soviet apartment blocks. But many of the statues and brutalist structures are very unique and I truly hope they're preserved. None of the new construction here is nearly as interesting.

The churches, as a non religious person, I can tell you the churches in Russia are gorgeous. The one in St Petersburg on the original island is simply stunning.

Re: A Soviet-era airport, once the height of luxury, faces demolition in Armenia

#56

Post by gregoriol »

dmos62 wrote: post #48
gregoriol wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The old building is likely small, not adapted to modern security, equipments, facilities and will cost much more in refurbishment and use. It also probably was not that well built and/or degraded for years. Just replace it, new will be better in this case.

> replace it The movements for preservation of architecture would likely have something to say about that. A lot of people are tired of the whole demolish-build shtick, and yet others find it insulting in its disregard for what they find to be monuments. In my opinion, some of the most inspiring uses of space and architecture today are happening in ex-abandoned, ex-unused industrial buildings. An example I've visited…

I'm not saying that all old buildings should be replaced: there are a lot of good examples around, we have many here in Paris too, also thinking of the famous Saarinen TWA Flight Center (still have to see some transformation results on this one though).

However, this one, compared to other projects you mention, won't likely be usable for art or other entertainment as it is located within the airport area. It won't likely work again as an airport facility either, since too small and not adapted to modern requirements. It could maybe become a hotel like the TWA building, but that would likely cost a huge lot of money seeing the current state on the pictures, and the need has to be justified, "tourism" like for the Saarinen building won't probably be enough.

I'd be happy to argue "for" preservation, but the article does not show any viable projects either: it seems like people want to preserve, but without a clear idea about what to do with it.

On the "against" side, there are a lot of new projects replacing old buildings that have been a huge success.

Re: A Soviet-era airport, once the height of luxury, faces demolition in Armenia

#57

Post by Nursie »

jotm wrote: post #50
Nursie wrote: post #27

That is a hideously ugly building. It doesn't say "city of the future" to me, as the author seems to suggest, but city of the past. And not the glorious past or the beautiful past, but a period of architecture dominated by harsh lines, masses of exposed concrete, and the idea of architecture expressing domination over the land and over the people who used it. Brutalism, here in the UK, is largely seen as an ugly mist…

Yeah, it's nothing like 1-2 storey buildings with exposed brick and wood, often conjoined in pairs, triples or long lines, that take up large swaths of land on a small island.

Not sure of your point? I agree it's nothing like suburban Britain, which is hardly a wonder in most places itself.

There's more than one type of ugly around. Brutalist buildings in the UK are some of the worst, bleakest and profoundly unfriendly places.

Re: A Soviet-era airport, once the height of luxury, faces demolition in Armenia

#58

Post by Nursie »

bopbop wrote: post #34
Nursie wrote: post #27

That is a hideously ugly building. It doesn't say "city of the future" to me, as the author seems to suggest, but city of the past. And not the glorious past or the beautiful past, but a period of architecture dominated by harsh lines, masses of exposed concrete, and the idea of architecture expressing domination over the land and over the people who used it. Brutalism, here in the UK, is largely seen as an ugly mist…

That's likely subjective, as I think it's extremely aesthetically pleasing - I've always seen Brutalism as having strong links with the Bauhaus style, something else I have high regard for. I won't argue with your city of the past argument as I'm not sure I'd term it as the dominant architecture of a city of the future, but I think it definitely has a place. I would argue against Brutalism expressing domination over…

It's unlikely to be popular in the UK again any time soon, it reeks of depressing grey misery and inhuman, unfriendly architecture. It also reeks of crap 1960s city centres.

I hope this 'revival' is strangled in infancy.

I also disagree that it is function in form - brutalist buildings often fail to perform their function well, usually due to ignoring human factors like requiring light and air, or encouraging criminality and vandalism by having dark, semi-accessible corners.

I look at brutalist structures like the Heyward Gallery and despair that anyone could have thought inflicting that on the world was doing it good, when looking across the river at what else London has to offer.

Re: A Soviet-era airport, once the height of luxury, faces demolition in Armenia

#59

Post by mikepurvis »

mikepurvis wrote: post #31

Very similar vibes to the mothballed TWA terminal at JFK, and a lot of the same problems: beautifully architected indoor spaces which are way too small to accommodate the large numbers of people needing to pass through (or wait at) a modern airport, not enough internal separation to facilitate current security needs, and tons of open staircases everywhere— basically zero ability to comply with ADA or even fire regs.…

Just to follow on here, there are some much more evocative pictures of the TWA building in this Wired article:

https://www.wired.com/2015/08/max-touhey-twa-flight-center/

And also on this blog, from a guy who snuck in during a layover:

https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/2018/01/25/twa-fligh...

Re: A Soviet-era airport, once the height of luxury, faces demolition in Armenia

#60

Post by bopbop »

pjc50 wrote: post #43
bopbop wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's likely subjective, as I think it's extremely aesthetically pleasing - I've always seen Brutalism as having strong links with the Bauhaus style, something else I have high regard for. I won't argue with your city of the past argument as I'm not sure I'd term it as the dominant architecture of a city of the future, but I think it definitely has a place. I would argue against Brutalism expressing domination over…

> Brutalism expressing domination over people - I've always seen it more as expressing function in form, which would be the opposite It expresses the architect's idea of function, which may or may not have anything to do with the actual users. However, whenever the actual users of a building complain about the poor UX (noise, leaks, discomfort difficulty finding things in the layout) or their feeling of unhappiness i…

I can see how building a process directly into a building can lead to an inflexibility with changing the process.

I think the argument you're making lends itself well to a criticism of any pre-planned system.

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