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Thanks for the Surprise Integration with My Website, Apple

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Re: Thanks for the Surprise Integration with My Website, Apple

#171

Post by pbhjpbhj »

threeseed wrote: post #130
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right and I'm totally on board with that. But that doesn't seem to be how Apple works, if they freely share everything they put on line then, for sure, have at it. If they expect people to pay to access their IPR then they should, without prompting, pay others when they want access to their's.

I'm confused. Does Apple prevent you from linking to their website ? Because that's the point here. That the web was built to allow anyone to link to anyone without asking permission.

They're framing (as we used to call it back in the good old geocities days!). If I wrap Apple's stuff in my livery, leeching their content, I guarantee there will be legal action (C&D).

Also, see up thread where they disclaim right to do the same to them.

Re: Thanks for the Surprise Integration with My Website, Apple

#172

Post by tveita »

adriand wrote: post #47
huhtenberg wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple essentially repackaged this guy's work, used it to enhance their own product in a way that all but eliminates any need to ever visit his website or even know it exists. Excellent.

Crazy thought, but, what if the primary motivation of the creator of JGuitar has nothing to do with his website, his reputation, etc.? For example, what if his primary motivation is to do something useful for others? What if his primary motivation is just to improve the enjoyment of people who like playing guitar? I agree that Apple should have handled this differently. At the same time, I think we should honour this…

That just makes the lack of proper attribution worse.

If you're breaching courtesy and decency it doesn't help your case that the victim is a nice person.

Re: Thanks for the Surprise Integration with My Website, Apple

#173

Post by ryandrake »

JimA wrote: post #154
dazmax wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This shortcut could be seen as scraping the website, since it's just pulling out one image

Scraping = save a local copy of the image Linking = point to source image If they are referring to jguitar.com each time then this is linking.

I had an app in the AppStore for years that scraped Vonage’s web site and neither them nor Apple seemed to care. There is nothing innately immoral about downloading a web page and parsing it in ways the web site operator did not consider.

Re: Thanks for the Surprise Integration with My Website, Apple

#174

Post by ryandrake »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #170
nevi-me wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In South Africa, if you put your website online, you're automatically protected by our Intellectual Property Act under copyright protection. Unless I waive that copyright (which I haven't waived per my TOS on the website), whoever hotlinks to my website or derives financial gain without my consent is violating my rights per my country's Constitution. I don't see any "explicitly giving the right ..." there. In fact, I…

You realise the internet is global? You put up a "free food" sign, put chicken on the brai and now you want to stop people from helping themselves to the chicken. Take the website off the internet if you don't want to share it. /Charlie-bit-my-finger

I’ve never understood this mentality. Why publish content on the Internet without access control if you don’t want people reading the content?

Re: Thanks for the Surprise Integration with My Website, Apple

#175

Post by inerte »

Sgt_Apone wrote: post #116
EugeneOZ wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the real artist, most important thing is to know that people use your work and they like it or it's useful for them.

That's an absurd statement. There are plenty of "real artists" that want to make a living with their work. You can't pay your bills with exposure.

Not OP, but I saw the sarcasm miles away.

Re: Thanks for the Surprise Integration with My Website, Apple

#176

Post by ryandrake »

dragonwriter wrote: post #134
JepZ wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So all this is about is bandwidth and attribution?!? I mean aren't they sending their users to your web page? Other people would be glad if they would just have to pay the hosting costs for an image to get people on their page.

> mean aren't they sending their users to your web page? No, in this specific case, they are sending images from the page to users, bypassing the actual page. For a site where the user value was in the image and the monetization was elsewhere on the page, it's capturing the value of your work and bypassing the mechanism which pays you for that work. It may be legal, but even if so it is not sustainable .

This “linking vs hotlinking” distinction is pointless. It’s an image sitting at a URL. A browser can request that image and display it. If you don’t want people to view images you publish publicly, then don’t publish them or require authentication in order to request them.

Re: Thanks for the Surprise Integration with My Website, Apple

#177

Post by [deleted] »

tnorthcutt wrote: post #161
forthefuture wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they all used to, which means functionally the only difference is now there isn't a link so I have to make an additional request, in a new tab, directly to Wikipedia for more information (Demographics, Economics, Government, etc).

So, just to be clear: 1. Google Maps used to include a blurb about Malta from Wikipedia, and a link to the Wikipedia page about Malta. 2. They now include a blurb about Malta which is not from Wikipedia, and do not link to the Wikipedia page about Malta. 3. You are upset that they no longer include a link to the Wikipedia page about Malta. Is this correct? If so, it seems like your frustration is about Google choosin…

[deleted]

Re: Thanks for the Surprise Integration with My Website, Apple

#178

Post by rchaud »

brennebeck wrote: post #160
rchaud wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Truly refreshing and reminded me of the attitude I saw more often in the early days of the web. Kudos to the author for that. Unfortunately, he has extended his well-meaning olive branch to companies built on the philosophy of Bill Gates' Open Letter to Hobbyists.

> Bill Gates' Open Letter to Hobbyists. Serious question: do you believe that letter to be immoral or indicative of immoral behavior? Or something specific? Edit: format; quote.

I don't see anything wrong with the letter; if you want to be paid for use of your software, that's reasonable. Gates basically expressed that he disagreed with the philosophy of the club. Nothing wrong with that.

What's happening with Jguitar however is that a big tech player that exists because people pay for their software (iOS) setting a precedent where they're actively siphoning content outside the garden and feeding it back to users in their ecosystem, with no attribution or licensing deal with the creator. That's wrong, in the exact same way that homebrew Hackintosh machines built for sale are wrong.

Re: Thanks for the Surprise Integration with My Website, Apple

#179

Post by kmonsen »

yebyen wrote: post #125
JW_00000 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the "downloadable source code" is written by Apple, so that workflow _is_ software by Apple that takes an image from his website and displays it without attribution.

Well, not really: > When I clicked "show actions" it revealed the "actions" that make up the shortcut and I could finally see the JGuitar.com link in the URL section. I mean, that's not exactly a proper attribution notice, I'll give you that... but it's not just straight hot-linking without any visible attribution at all. (edit2: I mean, they are sending thousands of visitors to the OP's image service, it is hot-link…

That's the thing, it seems likely that this content could change it they could get some hostile website owner that changes some pictures to porn or whatever. Kind of risky for an Apple app.

To be clear, I don't think Apple is wrong, just a bit risky.

Re: Thanks for the Surprise Integration with My Website, Apple

#180

Post by dx87 »

inerte wrote: post #175
Sgt_Apone wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an absurd statement. There are plenty of "real artists" that want to make a living with their work. You can't pay your bills with exposure.

Not OP, but I saw the sarcasm miles away.

I wouldn't be so sure. When Valve had their failed attempt at a marketplace for paid Skyrim mods, one of the common complaints from other modders was that you should only make mods out of passion for the game, and any modders who put paid mods on the Valve store were sellouts that the community shouldn't work with anymore.
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