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Don't learn Dvorak

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Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#121

Post by vlthr »

jandrese wrote: post #17
man-and-laptop wrote: post #4

On the subject of using other people's computers: How do people who use a heavily customised environment -- like Emacs with modifications (like caps-lock key for CONTROL) -- cope with this?

This is exactly the reason I don't have a heavily personalized environment anymore. Copying it around to every machine was more hassle than it was worth. This is also why I get so mad when the defaults are bad, especially when they're changed to be bad. A good example is how ls now adds fake quote characters if your file listing has spaces in it. As someone who mastered the Tab key ages ago those quotes are useless v…

If you're mostly on Linux/Mac I can strongly recommend using a dotfiles repository containing all of your config files and a script that you can run to create symlinks to all of these files in the correct places.

With small tweaks like a non-symlinked file that contains only machine local variables (I call mine .bashrc.local and source it from the main bashrc), you can evem make the configs vary across machines on the subtler things.

This works wonders for me getting custom configs everywhere, with the exception of windows machines that are always a huge headache to work with.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#122

Post by bjoli »

marssaxman wrote: post #97

I have been using Dvorak all my life - I never learned to touch-type with QWERTY - and for the most part I'd agree with this author's conclusions. While my typing speed is higher than average, it's not so much higher that I can confidently credit the use of Dvorak, and in any case I have never found that typing speed has any significant effect on programming productivity. Contrary to this author's experience, however…

I type faster than most people, getting 120wpm for sustained periods of time. I did so before switching to Dvorak and I still do (although not with qwerty). For me it was as simple as training to avoid tensing my fingers and feeling strokes of keys rather than individual key presses.

This makes me think that neither Dvorak nor Colemak are the best layouts for me, but rather something that optimises for di- or trigraphs. This will be pretty language dependant, even moreso than Dvorak/colemak, and as someone who regularly write in three languages it is probably just easier to stick to something with a more general design.

The capewell-evolved layout does so for English, and it can really be worth checking out.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#123

Post by vlthr »

I switched to dvorak for RSI reasons about two years ago and have now switched back to qwerty. If dvorak (plus split programmable keyboards, vim, etc) made any difference to my symptoms, it was at least not enough to be noticeable (though it is hard to say since the symptoms vary in intensity).

One of the things I'm considering as a possible explanation for my issues is that all of the changes I've made have made my usage patterns smaller and more repetitive, and that going back to more inefficient methods slow me down and force me to move my arms in bigger movements might actually be less painful.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#124

Post by bjoli »

jamesg wrote: post #42

If you're considering learning Dvorak, I'd strongly recommend considering Colemak instead. I tried Dvorak with the hope that it would mitigate RSI, but it spreads the work among fingers pretty unevenly -- I really ended up just moving the problem rather than fixing it (mostly to my right pinky). Colemak is (relatively) easy to learn if you know QWERTY, and it's been life-changing for me: I can work for more hours of…

I'd say that you should use whatever floats your boat. For me Colemak never stopped feeling weird, despite having spent a lot of time playing around with keyboard layouts.

Another thing people should try, at least if they are at a workstation is pedals. Back when I was still using evil (an Emacs mode for emulating vim) I tried a pedal that switched to normal mode for every other mode or switched to Insert mode from normal mode.

Together with a properly set up abbrev mode that has saved me more typing than anything else combined.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#125

Post by Apaec »

Kinda the same reason why I only used an Ergodox EZ for a couple days. I realized that collaboration is hard and also wasted too much time configuring it. Restrictions do free sometimes.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#126

Post by marssaxman »

dnautics wrote: post #48
wycy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is some truth to the idea that QWERTY was designed to slow you by separating commonly paired keys, it might actually be advantageous in the world of touchscreen keyboards. Separating frequently paired keys would presumably make autocorrect better at guessing what you meant to say than if common letters were clustered in the same area of the keyboard.

Dvorak is absolutely horrible on touchscreens.

Keyboards are absolutely horrible on touchscreens, regardless of layout. I love my new BlackBerry Keyone.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#127

Post by marssaxman »

accnumnplus1 wrote: post #70

What's the effect of using Dvorak or Colemak on things like vim? The hjkl for example get topsy-turvied.

I have never been able to learn vim, and I imagine that the bizarre incoherence of its key syntax when typed in dvorak has something to do with it; I've never been especially good at rote memorization.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#128

Post by toastal »

michelledepeil wrote: post #76

I learned to type on Dvorak for fun during my CS degree, and realized very soon that it would be perfect for 2 thumb phone typing, as it focusses on left-right-left-right action, versus the left-left-right-right of Qwerty. But on a work computer, where other people should be allowed and able to do some minor operations on your machine, it's too much of a hassle. I will add that the initial learning period was infuria…

I actually really love it on my phone. I've considered switching to Colemak a few times in the last 10 years, but the typing experience of Dvorak on my phone let's me type really fast and I want my layouts to be consistent on my devices.

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#129

Post by snthpy »

vlthr wrote: post #120
emodendroket wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Squeeze therapeutic putty 30s per hand, wrist curl underhand and overhand 10x3, rotate hammer from left to right 10x3. Nothing too fancy but it's the routine an occupational therapist gave me and it worked.

Is there a video/article you could share describing how to do these with good form? I am now about 7 years into an RSI issue that nothing seems to work on, but I haven't committed to any training routine for more than a couple of weeks (with no effect).

Some starting points:

[The Functional Programmer - keeping Repetitive Strain Injury at bay](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_eelK-KLIA)

[Wikihow](https://www.wikihow.com/Strengthen-Your-Wrists)

Re: Don't learn Dvorak

#130

Post by singularity2001 »

jamesg wrote: post #42

If you're considering learning Dvorak, I'd strongly recommend considering Colemak instead. I tried Dvorak with the hope that it would mitigate RSI, but it spreads the work among fingers pretty unevenly -- I really ended up just moving the problem rather than fixing it (mostly to my right pinky). Colemak is (relatively) easy to learn if you know QWERTY, and it's been life-changing for me: I can work for more hours of…

If you worry about RSI, use speech recognition whenever you write emails or comments. There is even a trick to use it on Linux if you're interested (not the crappy sphinx/kaldi).
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