Live data from Hacker News

The Square Grid - New CSS-Grid

thesquaregrid.com

11–20 of 33 posts

Re: The Square Grid - New CSS-Grid

#11
post #8

I never understood what these CSS "frameworks" are supposed to do for me. Define the width of the two columns on my page? I just don't get it. This is a serious question, I'm not mocking/trolling, so I'd appreciate somebody enlightens me. edit: thanks for the answers guys. I still don't get it though, it's just a couple of lines of CSS in this "frameworks". Oh well, I guess I just don't get it ...

I'm a web developer, but not a designer, and not hugely proficient in CSS. I understand the basics, but it often takes me a while to get things to look the way I want them.

For me, grid frameworks were a revelation - they let me, for the first time, quickly lay out the site with very little pain. Using a framework, I sketch how I'd like the site laid out, and then it's a simple matter of writing a bit of html and adding a few classes to get the layout I want. Working from zero is much harder for me.

Re: The Square Grid - New CSS-Grid

#12
post #8

I never understood what these CSS "frameworks" are supposed to do for me. Define the width of the two columns on my page? I just don't get it. This is a serious question, I'm not mocking/trolling, so I'd appreciate somebody enlightens me. edit: thanks for the answers guys. I still don't get it though, it's just a couple of lines of CSS in this "frameworks". Oh well, I guess I just don't get it ...

From my perspective as a designer (I make this disclaimer since I could be talking out of my ass), these CSS frameworks seem like an easier way to implement a grid system in a web page. I don't have to define the width of the grid or gutters, I just specify how many columns per row I want. This makes the act of laying out content for me faster than having to code this from scratch.

Re: The Square Grid - New CSS-Grid

#13
post #8

I never understood what these CSS "frameworks" are supposed to do for me. Define the width of the two columns on my page? I just don't get it. This is a serious question, I'm not mocking/trolling, so I'd appreciate somebody enlightens me. edit: thanks for the answers guys. I still don't get it though, it's just a couple of lines of CSS in this "frameworks". Oh well, I guess I just don't get it ...

the real purpose of this, and blueprint, and 960.gs is to give you a pre-defined set of layout elements to help in rapid prototyping. The idea being that these frameworks ahve been tested across all browsers.

so in theory (or practice) you can rapidly whip up multi-column layouts without worrying too much about it.

note that these frameworks are often overkill, and come w/a lot of unnecessary weight/code for lots of people.

Re: The Square Grid - New CSS-Grid

#14
post #10

I like the fact that more people are trying to incorporate baselines into their grid. This is another one I found ( http://baselinecss.com/ ) but I much prefer the one in the OP.

I've never heard the term "baseline". Would you mind explaining what that means?

Baseline is where the bottom of a text character sits. Sidenote: Parts of a character that descends past the baseline (characters: y, p, q, j) are called descenders.

In graphic design, baselines are used to align content in different columns so that they line up with one another. For example, if you read a magazine article and see two columns side by side, they should share the same baselines.

This is especially useful when you have elements that make columns shift positioning. Let's say on one column you have some text and on the other, you have an image that pushes down the second column. How do you align the second column? Most people would just look at the padding between the image and the second column of text when in reality, it's probably best to also look at whether or not it's sharing the same baseline as the first column.

Re: The Square Grid - New CSS-Grid

#15
CSS grids are trivial to write. They consist of three major declaration types:

.row { width: ?px; clear: left; }

.col-1, .col-2.... { margin: ?px; float: left }

.col-1 { width: ?px; } .col-2 { width: ?px; }

Why do I bring this up? Because it is so simple to write these, it almost never makes sense to use a framework. If I ever want a grid for a particular project, I write it custom with a little help from excel.

This allows me to build mini-grid frameworks for whatever container width I need. This way I don't abandon separation of content from presentation across a whole site -- just on a particular page.

Re: The Square Grid - New CSS-Grid

#17
post #7

When writing your code simply assign the "sg-" class to your box elements. That's why I don't like CSS frameworks: they throw the very idea of separation of content from presentation out of the window :(

Could you explain how you think adding a class violates the separation of content and presentation?

Unless you're building a completely unstyled site, you'll be adding classes and ids anyway, so what makes using predefined ones wrong?

Re: The Square Grid - New CSS-Grid

#18

CSS grids are trivial to write. They consist of three major declaration types: .row { width: ?px; clear: left; } .col-1, .col-2.... { margin: ?px; float: left } .col-1 { width: ?px; } .col-2 { width: ?px; } Why do I bring this up? Because it is so simple to write these, it almost never makes sense to use a framework. If I ever want a grid for a particular project, I write it custom with a little help from excel. This…

Why reinvent the wheel when you can use one known framework(e.g. blueprint) than will be instantly recognized by other designers?

Re: The Square Grid - New CSS-Grid

#19
I like the idea of designing with a grid in mind (I use the 960 grid for many of my projects), but I never use the CSS framework to convert it to html. I just don't see the point, every design is unique and handcoding is always more perfect/cleaner, yet doesn't take much longer, if at all, to write.

Re: The Square Grid - New CSS-Grid

#20

I like the fact that more people are trying to incorporate baselines into their grid. This is another one I found ( http://baselinecss.com/ ) but I much prefer the one in the OP.

So, this is a neat idea, but the way css is designed (i.e. half-leading model) makes generalized baseline alignments completely horrid because you end up doing all these positioning gimmicks based on the exact descender depth of the font you're using. At that point, you're really designing for the font which sort of defeats the generality/convenience of css.

I don't think at the time it was designed there was a sense that anybody would actually want features like actual baseline alignment (i mean, look at the extent of UILabel's typography options for a good example of this sort of present-day rationalization) I've nearly given up on having any semblance of generalized baseline alignment in css like i do in, say, indesign, which although horrid, at least got that part right.

That said, if you want a good argument against a strict baseline grid i'll supply one and a half: derek birdsall1's notes on book design[1] and mine:

When i started working through my mfa i had completely drunk the grid kool-aid from Samsara, Elam, Bringhurst and (natürlich) Müller-B. I was obsessed with vertical grids and i used them much to my detriment (because i was blindly plugging away). My shit looked mechanical which is not really me at all. Then i met another designer who said, in passing: "who really uses grids? You make shit look good. When you're done, you tidy it up with a grid if the spirit moves you.* It'll probably already be on some grid, everyone's brain does that, and your post-rationalized grid's practically ready-made. how cool is that?"*

Now, this sort of presumes you can make shit look good which is a tall order, but really it means following your gut and possibly using a grid to keep it in check. If you start with a fixed grid, you limit many of your options from the outset because you're trying to fit stuff into these little squares.

Of course, this takes lots of practice. Practically speaking, grids take much of the choice out of things. If you need to make something that looks cool fast, rip one out of Müller-B and plug away. It will look awesome. Otherwise, loosen up, have some brown liquor and design away until you're happy or trashed or both.

[1]: http://yalepress.yale.edu/yupbooks/book.asp?isbn=97803001034...

Post reply on HN