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China’s all-seeing surveillance network

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Re: China’s all-seeing surveillance network

#61
post #50
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubt, there's no pure communist states left, they all fell after killing a bunch of their citizens by "knowing what's best". The economy is a chaotic system and any earnest attempt at top down control will fail, let alone communism which historically was more about transferring power to your friends than any real belief in an ideology.

Just FYI (has been said a gazillion times on the Internet): no state on this planet was ever communist. Communism is a society without money, no such thing existed on a state level anywhere. The states you are referring to were 100% socialist, i.e. no private property in any form or share with very very few exceptions; money tightly controlled by the state; all businesses are state-owned. The comment above though pro…

>Communism is a society without money, no such thing existed on a state level anywhere.

While it might not be something you can compare to communism, the Inca Civilization had a centrally planned economy with no form of money at all and was HUGELY successful [1]

[1]: http://www.discover-peru.org/inca-economy-society/

Re: China’s all-seeing surveillance network

#62
post #50
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubt, there's no pure communist states left, they all fell after killing a bunch of their citizens by "knowing what's best". The economy is a chaotic system and any earnest attempt at top down control will fail, let alone communism which historically was more about transferring power to your friends than any real belief in an ideology.

Just FYI (has been said a gazillion times on the Internet): no state on this planet was ever communist. Communism is a society without money, no such thing existed on a state level anywhere. The states you are referring to were 100% socialist, i.e. no private property in any form or share with very very few exceptions; money tightly controlled by the state; all businesses are state-owned. The comment above though pro…

Communism in practice is the unending struggle to achieve the imaginary, theoretical communism you refer to.

Re: China’s all-seeing surveillance network

#63
post #53
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just FYI (has been said a gazillion times on the Internet): no state on this planet was ever communist. Communism is a society without money, no such thing existed on a state level anywhere. The states you are referring to were 100% socialist, i.e. no private property in any form or share with very very few exceptions; money tightly controlled by the state; all businesses are state-owned. The comment above though pro…

A society without money is even more absurd.

The Inca Civilization had no money was was pretty darn successful

http://www.discover-peru.org/inca-economy-society/

Re: China’s all-seeing surveillance network

#64
post #57

It's an interesting article but it is also worth remembering that western society is not all that far away from this vision. Credit scores are widely used, there are apps for them, they can prevent you from getting housing or loans. A criminal record likewise affects your employment prospects, and many other areas of your life. CCTV may be widespread in China but the USA and UK are still way out in front[0]. Lastly,…

stop this "what about the western world". I see this pattern every time there's a critical article about China. When there's an article about the west's censorship, we would be happy to talk about it, but for now, let's focus on the ridiculous and crazy to be put it mildly things going on in China.

Re: China’s all-seeing surveillance network

#65

Obviously the camera system can track humans walking around, but does it actually identify specific individuals? What does that number in the box with the chinese text mean? Are they able to use facial recognition _everywhere_ and thus record where everyone is or, more importantly, was? I am skeptical that this can pulled off with current technology? Can it?

> does it actually identify specific individuals?

Some do.

> Suspect caught in China at concert after being detected by face recognition tech

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/12/17229530/china-facial-rec...

> Chinese Facial Recognition System Would Fine Jaywalkers By Text

https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a...

But I don't believe a camera at a supermarket is able to do that. Only if you use digital payment, or online shopping.

Re: China’s all-seeing surveillance network

#66

Better title - Social credit: China's digital dictatorship Pretty horrifying story, sounds like Black Mirror.

Here you go from a few hours ago.

"China is building a digital dictatorship to exert control over its 1.4B citizens"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18026060

They aren't even waiting 24 hours.

Re: China’s all-seeing surveillance network

#67

Obviously the camera system can track humans walking around, but does it actually identify specific individuals? What does that number in the box with the chinese text mean? Are they able to use facial recognition _everywhere_ and thus record where everyone is or, more importantly, was? I am skeptical that this can pulled off with current technology? Can it?

It cannot

Source: I worked in a related field for five years, and evaluated a lot of technologies from major players.

Re: China’s all-seeing surveillance network

#69

> Every step she takes, every one of her actions big or small — even what she thinks — can be tracked and judged. [emphasis added] Can anybody shed upon how these Social Credit systems would be able to track what a person thinks ?

> even what she thinks

I don't think the cameras can track your mind. I think it is a little bit of exaggeration, and refers to e.g. knowing one's political leanings by analyzing online accounts.

Re: China’s all-seeing surveillance network

#70
post #57

It's an interesting article but it is also worth remembering that western society is not all that far away from this vision. Credit scores are widely used, there are apps for them, they can prevent you from getting housing or loans. A criminal record likewise affects your employment prospects, and many other areas of your life. CCTV may be widespread in China but the USA and UK are still way out in front[0]. Lastly,…

>CCTV may be widespread in China but the USA and UK are still way out in front[0]

That's extremely misleading to the point of being propaganda, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. The vast majority of the CCTV's in the US aren't hooked up to any kind of network that delivers data back to the federal (or even state/local) government. They are just security cameras purchased by companies for their own security. That difference is critical because they're not allowing tracking. (NOTE: I speak for the US, the UK could be significantly different)

>Lastly, for the suppression of the guy who uncovered party corruption, just look at the treatment of Snowden or many other whistle blowers.

Whataboutism and Snowden wasn't uncovering corruption. He was revealing the gross freedom the NSA is permitted to act with under the current US laws.

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