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Flutter Release Preview 2

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Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#81

Post by pjmlp »

isoos wrote: post #65
stewbrew wrote: post #54

Why do they want me to learn a new language to make use of a gui runtime+lib? Seriously. What makes that language that revolutionary so that nothing else, no other tried & tested & loathed language, could have been used instead? I don't see it.

Across several industries and in different companies, my experience was that learning Dart was measured in hours and not weeks. One company started to train their HR employees to code in Dart (being their first programming language that they learn) in order to streamline the interviewing process of developers. If you have seen C#, Kotlin, TypeScript or Java code and understand it, you will understand Dart and will be…

The difference is the amount of available C#, Kotlin, TypeScript or Java jobs and Dart ones.

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#82

Post by pjmlp »

jrs95 wrote: post #44
RobertRoberts wrote: post #36

It's really sad how Google can possibly (I won't bother wasting my time to find out) make something really truly awesome, and it just doesn't matter at all. Their brand has a stink to it that won't wear off any time soon, if ever. They chose an evil path of manipulating users into giving up privacy. Talking out both sides of their mouth with politics and freedom of speech and other things. Creating and dumping tech l…

There really isn't an alternative for what Flutter does, which is high quality cross platform apps that don't require separate UI code. Xamarin has Forms, but the UX is not nearly at the level of what you get from Flutter, and it would require some serious rework of how they render their widgets for that to change. Other solutions like Qt are just lagging behind, as much as I wish that weren't the case. Ultimately I…

Until Flutter is actually endorsed by the Android team I wouldn't even bother.

PWAs are being pushed by the Chrome team and Microsoft, which I have more faith than on Dart/Flutter, specially as skills to sell.

Likewise for C++ with native views, Qt or Xamarin.

What I care about is using a language where Flutter is the last hope to make it relevant in the market.

I don't need another one to pile on my Turbo Pascal, Oberon, Delphi list.

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#83

Post by Hixie »

saagarjha wrote: post #75
danbalthasar wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flutter takes full control of the rendering pipeline directly on both platforms - all the controls your seeing are written in Dart for Flutter, but designed to mimic the best of what the platform offers. In particular, this means that if you're running an Android app on an older device, it can still show the latest Material design widgets (and similarly for iOS, showing the latest Cupertino styled widgets, or Materia…

> Flutter takes full control of the rendering pipeline directly on both platforms - all the controls your seeing are written in Dart for Flutter, but designed to mimic the best of what the platform offers. You see, this is rarely what I want. I’ve seen time and time again people trying to emulate controls and it just doesn’t work. Apple has a whole team that’s spent years making the iOS UI look just the way it is, an…

(Flutter TL here)

I encourage you to compare our iOS ("cupertino") widgets with the UiKit ones. We've still got many to implement, but I think we have the fidelity pretty high for the ones we've implemented. If you disagree please do file bugs, we care very much about fidelity.

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#84

Post by isoos »

pjmlp wrote: post #81
isoos wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Across several industries and in different companies, my experience was that learning Dart was measured in hours and not weeks. One company started to train their HR employees to code in Dart (being their first programming language that they learn) in order to streamline the interviewing process of developers. If you have seen C#, Kotlin, TypeScript or Java code and understand it, you will understand Dart and will be…

The difference is the amount of available C#, Kotlin, TypeScript or Java jobs and Dart ones.

About two and half years ago I've been using Dart as an interview language for several companies (even though their stack did not include it). Except for one python shop (who were really looking for a hard-core python dev), everyone else was happy with my solutions presented in Dart, because ultimately: (1) the skill in one language is transferable to another one, (2) the job is rarely about a specific technology, rather about seeking a solution.

It usually starts with a small, new thing to adopt a new tech (e.g. a not-yet-important mobile app, or a medium-sized single-page web app), and eventually it can take over other parts of the stack. How fast it happens is really unpredictable.

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#85

Post by saagarjha »

Hixie wrote: post #83
saagarjha wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Flutter takes full control of the rendering pipeline directly on both platforms - all the controls your seeing are written in Dart for Flutter, but designed to mimic the best of what the platform offers. You see, this is rarely what I want. I’ve seen time and time again people trying to emulate controls and it just doesn’t work. Apple has a whole team that’s spent years making the iOS UI look just the way it is, an…

(Flutter TL here) I encourage you to compare our iOS ("cupertino") widgets with the UiKit ones. We've still got many to implement, but I think we have the fidelity pretty high for the ones we've implemented. If you disagree please do file bugs, we care very much about fidelity.

Do you have a widget catalog somewhere that I could try out on my device?

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#86

Post by Apocryphon »

monkmartinez wrote: post #51
nevi-me wrote: post #23

EDIT: formatting Almost everyone here talks about abandonment. It's become a sad Google reality, but I'd hazard that some people are posting from Google Chrome, which would defeat the point about worrying. I use Flutter, I've released an app that's been in prod for about 5 months now. Flutter runs on Dart, which is a Google-bred language. From my little knowledge, most/some of the people working on Dart are the team…

> but I'd hazard that some people are posting from Google Chrome, which would defeat the point about worrying. Uhhh, how do you draw that conclusion? There are lots of browsers and they take literally zero time to learn. Comparing a browser to programming language or framework is apples and oranges. > Is Google going to abandon Flutter, what about Dart? Should I not learn Go because they'll also abandon it? Heck, sho…

Kotlin is from JetBrains, not Google.

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#87

Post by pjmlp »

pier25 wrote: post #8
joobus wrote: post #4

How confident can anyone be basing a core product on flutter given Google's history of abandonment?

Google has abandoned products, but has it abandoned technologies?

Every year at Google IO Android APIs get partially rebooted, the NDK already got three build systems, Android Studio is being rebuilt from version to version.

Good luck to those that jump today into Android without the background how it grew up since the early days.

Documentation is outdated and many of the still documented best practices have long been replaced by Medium posts and SO answers about the new best practices that replaced them.

https://medium.com/@steve.yegge/who-will-steal-android-from-...

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#88

Post by [deleted] »

pjmlp wrote: post #81
isoos wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Across several industries and in different companies, my experience was that learning Dart was measured in hours and not weeks. One company started to train their HR employees to code in Dart (being their first programming language that they learn) in order to streamline the interviewing process of developers. If you have seen C#, Kotlin, TypeScript or Java code and understand it, you will understand Dart and will be…

The difference is the amount of available C#, Kotlin, TypeScript or Java jobs and Dart ones.

[deleted]

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#89

Post by Apocryphon »

spiritcat wrote: post #61
stewbrew wrote: post #54

Why do they want me to learn a new language to make use of a gui runtime+lib? Seriously. What makes that language that revolutionary so that nothing else, no other tried & tested & loathed language, could have been used instead? I don't see it.

Even if the design choice made sense for [reasons], this is imo the biggest thing holding it back.

Having to learn a new programming language is hardly a rare experience in mobile development.

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#90

Post by Apocryphon »

pjmlp wrote: post #82
jrs95 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There really isn't an alternative for what Flutter does, which is high quality cross platform apps that don't require separate UI code. Xamarin has Forms, but the UX is not nearly at the level of what you get from Flutter, and it would require some serious rework of how they render their widgets for that to change. Other solutions like Qt are just lagging behind, as much as I wish that weren't the case. Ultimately I…

Until Flutter is actually endorsed by the Android team I wouldn't even bother. PWAs are being pushed by the Chrome team and Microsoft, which I have more faith than on Dart/Flutter, specially as skills to sell. Likewise for C++ with native views, Qt or Xamarin. What I care about is using a language where Flutter is the last hope to make it relevant in the market. I don't need another one to pile on my Turbo Pascal, Ob…

There's always another bridge:

https://tech.olx.com/fast-prototypes-with-flutter-kotlin-nat...

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