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Flutter Release Preview 2

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Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#21

Post by timsneath »

hayksaakian wrote: post #2

Are there any apps in the wild that I can install which use flutter? I'm curious to know how it feels from a user perspective. Stats and benchmarks are neat but I'd really want to try it firsthand to know that it's "Fast".

Here's a great demo if you want to see pure speed: https://medium.com/2dimensions/showcasing-the-power-of-flutt...

Another new example of Flutter in action is Reflectly, which was recently featured on the Apple appstore: https://medium.com/reflectly-engineering/reflectly-from-reac....

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#22

Post by CraftThatBlock »

monkmartinez wrote: post #16

I am moving away from Google as fast as I can in most areas. Every time I bird-dog one of their products I am ultimately let down. There is no way I can trust anything they build at this point. I wish it were different as they have some really good ideas, they are just the worst when it comes to follow through for the long haul.

Google products and Google technologies are historically managed very differently, especially if the tech is open source.

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#23

Post by nevi-me »

EDIT: formatting

Almost everyone here talks about abandonment. It's become a sad Google reality, but I'd hazard that some people are posting from Google Chrome, which would defeat the point about worrying.

I use Flutter, I've released an app that's been in prod for about 5 months now. Flutter runs on Dart, which is a Google-bred language. From my little knowledge, most/some of the people working on Dart are the team in Aarhus that work(ed) on V8. Our Vyacheslav Egorov (mraleph) being first that comes to mind.

Is Google going to abandon Flutter, what about Dart? Should I not learn Go because they'll also abandon it? Heck, should I not develop for Android because they'll abandon it too?

The fearmongering is a bit excessive. I'd think Google has a better track record with software platforms. I separate Google into:

- Products - come for free, can be abandoned any time

- APIs - come for free, don't build your business around them in case MapsGate price surges come your way. Or, if you rely on them out of being "free", always have contingency plans to switch. After all, if they build a market then destroy it, it's a good space for smaller players to join in.

- Software & Platform Tools - feels safer, unless very experimental.

___

Flutter allowed me to do in a few days what Java/Kotlin was taking me weeks. Why? It makes developing UIs much easier. As one can see from the RP2 announcement, background execution looks hairy, app size is improved but the build process still lacks what native has (e.g. updates to an app result in user downloading whole apk).

Will I have to rewrite my app again when Flutter is abandoned? Sure, but it won't be an overnight rewrite. I'll probably be able to get away with a 1-2 year window (if I need one) before the last supported Google Play Services becomes obsolete.

For me, I'm willing to take that upfront benefit. Yes, downside's learning yet another new language. I learnt Dart, and it was about 80% similar to the langs that I already know.

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#25

Post by MarkMc »

timsneath wrote: post #18
MarkMc wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where they got those numbers. This graph seems more realistic to me [edit: maybe not - see subcomments]: http://sotagtrends.com/?tags=[ionic-framework,react-native,f... That is, Flutter is shooting up and overtaking Xamarin but still only half the popularity of React Native. This also roughly correlates with mentions on Google Trends: https://g.co/trends/y9Z8q On job websites React Native is way ahead -…

Hi there, the source for these numbers is the StackOverflow API. Just to clarify, the chart we have in the blog is showing question _views_, not questions tagged. There are more questions for other frameworks still (since they're more mature technologies), but we're seeing lots of views of questions tagged with Flutter.

Thanks for the clarification. Using 'number of views' would seem to be a valid metric, so now I'm not so sure about which graph is more realistic.

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#26

Post by timsneath »

threeseed wrote: post #10

I spent quite a few months comparing this with React Native. Flutter has done cross-platform right. And it's somewhat sad and counter-intuitive but pretending to be native is a lot better than actually being native. iOS and Android are just too dissimilar in areas to provide a common layer on top of. In particular routing which is a mess with React Native. Flutter also has the best development experience period. Noth…

Thanks for the kind comments! I'm one of the product managers on the Flutter team, so you're welcome to apply suitable skepticism to anything I might say in response to your last point, but I will say that Flutter is already being used in many strategic projects here at Google, as well as for many customer apps, some of which already have tens of millions of users. For example, Alibaba are using it to build one of their big apps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtYk3gWRSw0

I don't know if this is helpful in assuaging your concerns?

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#27

Post by village-idiot »

threeseed wrote: post #10

I spent quite a few months comparing this with React Native. Flutter has done cross-platform right. And it's somewhat sad and counter-intuitive but pretending to be native is a lot better than actually being native. iOS and Android are just too dissimilar in areas to provide a common layer on top of. In particular routing which is a mess with React Native. Flutter also has the best development experience period. Noth…

If it were a google product, I wouldn’t trust it for a second. It seems that very few consumer facing products from Google are safe from being cut these days.

If google is using it internally, the risks change. After the Angular 2.0 debacle I’d fear Google Just up and changing everything and not providing a smooth migration pathway because they can. They probably won’t cut it, but that doesn’t mean that they won’t inadvertently hurt you really badly

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#28

Post by stickfigure »

pier25 wrote: post #8
joobus wrote: post #4

How confident can anyone be basing a core product on flutter given Google's history of abandonment?

Google has abandoned products, but has it abandoned technologies?

Was Wave a product or a technology? Both, I guess.

That said, Wave doesn't seem comparable. Maybe GWT? If so, I'd be perfectly happy if Flutter has the lifespan of GWT, which is some 12 years old now and still viable (if perhaps a little crusty). 12 years is a phenomenal run for a piece of frontend tech.

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#29

Post by Apocryphon »

Google is making a smart move by showcasing Flutter's capability to make iOS apps. Cross-platform SDKs have a tendency of favoring one (iOS with React Native) or neither. By showing that devs can easily make quality apps on iOS, they show the promise of Flutter.

Re: Flutter Release Preview 2

#30

Post by strken »

nevi-me wrote: post #23

EDIT: formatting Almost everyone here talks about abandonment. It's become a sad Google reality, but I'd hazard that some people are posting from Google Chrome, which would defeat the point about worrying. I use Flutter, I've released an app that's been in prod for about 5 months now. Flutter runs on Dart, which is a Google-bred language. From my little knowledge, most/some of the people working on Dart are the team…

The migration from Chrome to Firefox takes between 30 seconds and 30 minutes, depending on how much stuff you choose to move over, and has nothing to do with migrating code between two platforms. It's not a fair comparison unless you're talking about developing browser extensions, and even then the API is very close to being cross-platform[0].

I don't think most people are making a principled stand against the use of Google products, they're just instinctively performing a risk analysis.

[0] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Add-ons/Web...

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