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FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

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Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#181

Post by barking »

subjectHarold wrote: post #173
barking wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I'm very suspicious of Paddy Power's ownership of betfair. They won't ban people there because their angle is as a broker working earning commission but they do potentially gain insider knowledge that they can then apply in their conventional business.

"Insider knowledge" isn't illegal and they couldn't care less what the outcome is. They make money by attracting customers who aren't sophisticated. If they want to know what the "right" price is, they just look at the Asian books (they don't employ people to help predict outcomes either).

maybe you're right but it being a well documented fact that they discourage successful punters to the extent of circulating photographs to betting shops makes me wonder. If someone is doing unusually well on their exchange why wouldn't they use that data, PP are extremely good at maximising every edge they have.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#182

Post by EpicEng »

iends wrote: post #164
EpicEng wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm certain I wouldn't considering I've spent my entire career in cancer diagnostics and finance. This is a completely reversible mistake and no one was harmed in any way (feelings don't count). Let's not go off the rails and start making Therac-25 like comparisons. This isn't some abstract problem; the issue is well defined, so let's stay within the realm of reason.

Do you also think bugs in HFT code should be able to "undo" their mistakes instead of losing lots of money?

And how do you propose that would be done? You've totally jumped the shark here. Comparing this, an easily reversible incident, to HFT is simply nonsense. Thousands (probably a lot more?) of transactions would have occurred within the context of the bug, and decisions were made based on bad data once the bug was in the wild. There's no way you could undo that.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#183

Post by barking »

rhcom2 wrote: post #179
barking wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a very odd conversation between two adults to me. Sounds more like a mother teaching her child. The word welch is fine, the fact that it has historical origins makes the word even more interesting. It's survived until now and we're no more enlightened than previous generations who also used it. In fact thinking we are, as we do, is one of the conceits every period seems to have.

There are many ethnic and racial slurs that were used in previous generations - that doesn't mean they are acceptable today. Surely you don't use some of the examples drfuchs gave even though they were once common place.

Of course I don't, we all conform, why is another question.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#184

Post by JamesBarney »

xae342 wrote: post #40

I feel like we need the Second Software Crisis movement to address the bug riddled software were still making, it’s as though we’re just acclimated to bugs everywhere as being expected. Perhaps in 2100 they’ll look back on this time in software as we do on the early automotive industry today.

The problem isn't that we don't know how to write bug free software, it's that we choose not to because it's far more expensive. It's about business priorities, not lack of technical knowledge.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#185

Post by _carl_jung »

okmokmz wrote: post #123
_carl_jung wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with you. I think a lot of the other criticism is a buildup of frustration against bad customer rights, but in this case I am aligned with FanDuel. It is so obviously a genuine mistake that some dude is trying to capitalise on and make a big media hoo-hah out of. He's getting $500 and three free games, just take it and be happy.

>It is so obviously a genuine mistake that some dude is trying to capitalise on and make a big media hoo-hah out of If the situation were reversed, and due to a genuine mistake FanDuel showed that the customer owed the company the money, do you think they would simply accept that it was a mistake and fix it? If I had to bet I would guess that they'd attempt to collect the money using any means necessary just like the…

Maybe, maybe not. And if that were the story we'd be having a different discussion. My points still stand though.

I don't think a company should have to shell out tens of thousands of dollars because a software bug resulted in a couple of extra zeros somewhere. Do you?

Quick edit: A thought experiment. What if the bug created odds orders of magnitude higher than this? Should FanDuel be forced into bankruptcy from the debt to the customer?

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#186

Post by benmmurphy »

This is pretty standard. I've had a really angry email from a bookmaker after betting on a line that was like 10% off. From the bookmakers POV if they had to honour these bets either a) spreads would be much or higher or b) spreads would be so high there would be no market for bookmakers. I would hope the bookmakers do the honourable thing and void all bets on the misplaced line, not just the losing side. It's pretty scummy to freeroll your customers.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#187

Post by dragonwriter »

freditup wrote: post #149
mdpopescu wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or 82 billion, or trillion... yes, I would expect them to go out of business. Same if they made a mistake that killed someone, for example. As others have said, what if the client (or they kid!) had made the bet online and entered a few extra zeroes (and lost) - would they have accepted "I made a mistake" as an excuse and canceled the bet? You should not encourage a business to have a "head we win, tails you lose" po…

But a client entering a couple extra zeroes is not a clean and obvious mistake. A person could reasonably bet either $5 or $500 for example. On the other hand, offering something like a 1000x payout for an event that has a 50% chance of happening is a clear and obvious error. If an error is egregious and obvious, it seems reasonable that a company (in this case FanDuel) not honor the deal. Similarly, say a grocery st…

> But a client entering a couple extra zeroes is not a clean and obvious mistake.

Neither is an oddsmaking posting odds out of line with your perception of thpe likelihood of events—if you are gambling, that's exactly what you are looking for normally.

> If an error is egregious and obvious, it seems reasonable that a company (in this case FanDuel) not honor the deal.

This bet was made over the counter: if there was such an obvious and egregious error, it should have been refused at the counter. Would FanDuel have tested the bet induced by the odds as null and returned the funds if the bettor had lost? If not, why should it get to nullify it when the bettor wins?

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#188

Post by [deleted] »

barking wrote: post #183
rhcom2 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many ethnic and racial slurs that were used in previous generations - that doesn't mean they are acceptable today. Surely you don't use some of the examples drfuchs gave even though they were once common place.

Of course I don't, we all conform, why is another question.

[deleted]

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#189

Post by DannyBee »

gojomo wrote: post #172
DannyBee wrote: post #14

Yeah, a quick read of the relevant regs tells me Fanduel is gonna lose this one (Unless i've missed something)[1,2] The law on this is pretty clear, and they can't unilaterally decide not to apply the gaming regulations of the state, or change them through their contracts. (They can decide not to do business in states they don't like the regulations of course) BTW, somewhat hilariously, the part they "..."'d is just…

I wouldn't trust a surface reading of one section of the regulations, unless you're a lawyer with specific expertise in New Jersey gambling law and precedent. There could easily be other offsetting law, regulation, or precedent. There might have been a prior decision which effectively gave "written approval" to void future egregious odds/payout errors. There may have been "prior written approval" of the house rules a…

1. I am a lawyer, licensed in 4 states (among other bars) :)

2. I grew up in NJ and am quite familiar with the gambling regs (but i admit to not having paid attention in the past few years)

3. I checked with other NJ lawyers.

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