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FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

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Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#101

Post by ssambros »

drstewart wrote: post #74
girvo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we really have much sympathy for a gambling company? If you make an error, they expect you to pay. Why shouldn’t they? Oh no, their huge profits take a one time $80k hit. I hope he wins in court.

Exactly, we shouldn't apply the law equally, we should apply it to how morally tasteful we find the business and how much money the company makes.

And what does the law say in this case? Can they refuse to pay out if they themselves decide it was a mistake to take the bet in the first place?

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#102

Post by maxerickson »

EpicEng wrote: post #93
maxerickson wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I'm entirely comfortable making life difficult for bookies.

And why is that? The rest of society has deemed it a ligitimate business. So you simply don't like gambling and that's why you want them to eat it? Not a very strong argument.

It's more that I think the activity of promoting gambling is one of getting your customers to eat it (It's advertised as a game of stakes, it's really just skimming transaction fees), so I don't mind it if what goes around comes around once in a while.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#103

Post by barking »

kevindqc wrote: post #100
barking wrote: post #6

Owned by Paddy Power. Not surprised they are welching on the bet, they make a great play on what good sports they are in their advertising but will ban you if you show signs of not being a complete mug.

I worked for a betting company for a bit, and they actually liked people who were great at betting. They get flagged along with the sport/league they are good at, and the traders used these people to adjust their lines. If someone bets and wins often on a specific sport/league, and they make a big bet for it that doesn't really make sense, maybe the line is wrong or that person knows something everyone else doesn't.

That's why I'm very suspicious of Paddy Power's ownership of betfair. They won't ban people there because their angle is as a broker working earning commission but they do potentially gain insider knowledge that they can then apply in their conventional business.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#104

Post by dsfyu404ed »

tomtheelder wrote: post #54
heavymark wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine if they had to honor, they would make it priority number one resolving those bugs, and make changes to make the bugs more apparent to people in the process. If they don't have to pay, there isn't much of an incentive to prioritize the fixes, especially since I imagine if the bugs are in the favor of the company they can make a lot of money.

I'm sure it is already a high priority, but it is a system built by humans, and it will always have mistakes. What if they were being forced to pay out 82 million instead of thousand? What about 82 billion? There should be clear cut laws surrounding clear errors, like there are in most places, and ones like this should not be forced to pay out.

When SCADA software fucks up and runs a ship aground someone has to pay. When something breaks because some engineer relied too much on FEAs and didn't do any destructive tests someone has to pay. "Whoops, our bad" is not an acceptable excuse except in tech.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#105

Post by _carl_jung »

fabricexpert wrote: post #75

In this case the punter must have known it was an error, so it doesn't seem moral to pick up the 82k. Somehow everyone else seems to think otherwise, so maybe I'm just a sucker.

I totally agree with you. I think a lot of the other criticism is a buildup of frustration against bad customer rights, but in this case I am aligned with FanDuel.

It is so obviously a genuine mistake that some dude is trying to capitalise on and make a big media hoo-hah out of. He's getting $500 and three free games, just take it and be happy.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#106

Post by foobaw »

supercanuck wrote: post #18
blah-blahblah wrote: post #2

This will just add to the (necessary - don't get me wrong) tax on society that is our legal system. It's pretty obvious what should happen here because, as humans, we understand and allow for the possibilities of mistakes. Fan Duel should send him some tickets to a game, try to create a positive interaction for him, and let's move on.

PaddyPower's revenue is 1.75 billion. Why wouldn't Bill Gates just eat the cost of the mistake. This isn't a "human interaction". A corporation isn't a human and is governed by the "make as much money as possible" theory (Shareholder Primacy), so why would we treat them the same as if this is a human interaction?

Eat the cost? Why doesn't Bill Gates just donate a few million dollars to every charity? Based on his net worth, that's not a lot. I think it's about setting the precedent.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#107

Post by barking »

warent wrote: post #99
matt_the_bass wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to clarify?

They're old racist terms against Welsh and Romani people

I've read the Welsh being described as loquacious, dissemblers, immoral liars, stunted, bigoted, dark, ugly, pugnacious little trolls, but I cannot confirm its truth or otherwise.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#108

Post by sandworm101 »

DannyBee wrote: post #14

Yeah, a quick read of the relevant regs tells me Fanduel is gonna lose this one (Unless i've missed something)[1,2] The law on this is pretty clear, and they can't unilaterally decide not to apply the gaming regulations of the state, or change them through their contracts. (They can decide not to do business in states they don't like the regulations of course) BTW, somewhat hilariously, the part they "..."'d is just…

But these are still contracts, subject to the basics of contract law. Contracts are not meant to be gotcha moments where one side leverages the mistakes of another. Look to the booking of flights. A small error here and there on price will be enforced. But a monumental error leveraged by people who would otherwise not fly will nullify the contract (ie hundreds of people suddenly booking first class travel London-Johannesburg because the website underpriced such tickets).

So in this case, where the remarkable odds were spotted by someone who knew it was a probable error, and would not have otherwise made the bet except for the error, I think a court will nullify.

What if it were billion-to-one odds? Should a company be destroyed because of a single numerical mistake? There is a line and I think this situation crosses it.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#109

Post by xenadu02 »

drstewart wrote: post #71
nlawalker wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this was my first thought too. My sincere hope is that the law's response is "Pay up, this is how your business works. If this kind of thing is going to be a problem for you, buy insurance for it."

My sincere hope is that you accidentally fat finger a button while banking one day and wipe out your checking account sending a transfer or something. We'll see if you feel the same way then.

There is a clear incentive for gambling operators to claim “error” anytime they might lose money.

That makes it somewhat different, no?

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#110

Post by dumbfounder »

monkpit wrote: post #94
dumbfounder wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if there was another zero on there? How about 8 more zeroes? Still think they should need to honor the bet? They offered him $500 and tickets to a game, I think he is getting greedy.

What if there were less zeroes? At what point can the company just decline to pay anything out at all because it’s up to their discretion whether a line was good or caused by a bug? Obviously in that case they would go out of business because people would be mad. But my point is that (in my opinion) it’s a very gray area legally.

It was less zeroes and they didn't pay and the guy has threatened to sue. Obviously it's a gray area, which is exactly why there are 2 sides to this argument. Their fine print will either stand up in court, or it won't. But you can't just assume they are going to pay out willingly every time they make a mistake. There is obviously a line where they have to say the risk in not paying out is worth the bad publicity and lawsuit potential. Then they learn from that mistake and move on. Then people use your business moving forward or they don't. That's why I like free markets, the checks and balances are already there to handle situations like this, we don't need legislation.
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