FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error • Hacker News Board

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#21

Post by fastball » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 4:26 PM UTC

setr wrote: post #15

komali2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tried 500$ and 3 Giants tickets, which he declined in favor of getting a lawyer. I think they should bite the bullet, pay it out, turn to their software engineers, and say "it's worth 82,000$ to this company to ensure that never happens again."

Its accidentally $82,000. If you allow such a bug to be honored, then potentially it could manage a near-infinite payout. Such bugs becomes not a costly mistake but instead existentially threatening And we certainly don’t have a software industry capable of supporting that environment

The software industry absolutely does have ways to prove a much higher level of code correctness than Paddy Power is demonstrating.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#22

Post by dumbfounder » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 4:27 PM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #3

And yet, you can bet that they'd collect if the error were in their favor. And they probably have. Absolutely disgusting.

Disgusting? So if you see a sign on a car for sale that says $19,95 because a digit fell off, the dealer is obligated to sell it to you at that price? People and systems make mistakes, that doesn't mean it's "disgusting" that they protect themselves financially from those mistakes.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#23

Post by dumbfounder » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 4:29 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #8

blah-blahblah wrote: post #2

This will just add to the (necessary - don't get me wrong) tax on society that is our legal system. It's pretty obvious what should happen here because, as humans, we understand and allow for the possibilities of mistakes. Fan Duel should send him some tickets to a game, try to create a positive interaction for him, and let's move on.

What's obvious about that? To me the obvious thing is that bookies have to honor the bets they sell and get to eat their delicious mistakes. It's within their power to improve their automated system to not offer stupid bets.

What if there was another zero on there? How about 8 more zeroes? Still think they should need to honor the bet? They offered him $500 and tickets to a game, I think he is getting greedy.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#24

Post by krupan » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 4:29 PM UTC

setr wrote: post #15

komali2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tried 500$ and 3 Giants tickets, which he declined in favor of getting a lawyer. I think they should bite the bullet, pay it out, turn to their software engineers, and say "it's worth 82,000$ to this company to ensure that never happens again."

Its accidentally $82,000. If you allow such a bug to be honored, then potentially it could manage a near-infinite payout. Such bugs becomes not a costly mistake but instead existentially threatening And we certainly don’t have a software industry capable of supporting that environment

We do too have software that can be that reliable. A aviation and space flight are quick examples. Gambling houses probably don't want to pay the cost of that software, but it could be done.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#25

Post by TwitchySeal » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 4:29 PM UTC

ddingus wrote: post #19

wccrawford wrote: post #3

And yet, you can bet that they'd collect if the error were in their favor. And they probably have. Absolutely disgusting.

Exactly. What they could do is pay this guy off, then follow the good press for a very likely net gain.

Except then they have to pay out every other time there's a bug.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#26

Post by girvo » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 4:32 PM UTC

blah-blahblah wrote: post #2

This will just add to the (necessary - don't get me wrong) tax on society that is our legal system. It's pretty obvious what should happen here because, as humans, we understand and allow for the possibilities of mistakes. Fan Duel should send him some tickets to a game, try to create a positive interaction for him, and let's move on.

Do we really have much sympathy for a gambling company? If you make an error, they expect you to pay. Why shouldn’t they? Oh no, their huge profits take a one time $80k hit. I hope he wins in court.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#27

Post by Arzh » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 4:32 PM UTC

DannyBee wrote: post #14

Yeah, a quick read of the relevant regs tells me Fanduel is gonna lose this one (Unless i've missed something)[1,2] The law on this is pretty clear, and they can't unilaterally decide not to apply the gaming regulations of the state, or change them through their contracts. (They can decide not to do business in states they don't like the regulations of course) BTW, somewhat hilariously, the part they "..."'d is just…

Good reply, I'm wondering they they will try to tie it to how slot machines handle errors ("All errors void play") which just payback the bet but don't payout.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#28

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 4:33 PM UTC

Our system has this exactly backwards. An individual should get the benefit of the doubt, and their mistakes should be mitigated. An individual human gets tired, hungry, emotional, etc and other such experiences which cloud judgement. A corporation on the other hand is supposed to systematically avoid these things.

Because of this, mistakes in the interaction between an individual and a corporation should favor the individual. However, it seems that the system favors the corporation.

Gaming companies are especially bad about this. Their whole setup is designed to take advantage of human weaknesses in evaluating risks. However, when they make a mistake they are often the first to say that the bet is invalid.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#29

Post by krupan » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 4:33 PM UTC

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #17

>>> industry practice, which specifically address such obvious pricing errors. I am in two minds here. Firstly this is a "contract" - honour it. Secondly, I understand the industry practise, but Indont think it is in line with society needs - that is a human bookmaker would never have given 750-1 with the team leading and minutes to go. So either you write software that won't do that and take the risk, or you stop us…

I couldn't agree more. Software that doesn't have these kinds of bugs is far from impossible, it just costs (possible an order of magnitude) more than gaming houses are willing to pay. The consequence of them not being willing to pay should fall squarely on their shoulders.

Re: FanDuel not honoring bet that would have paid over $82,000 due to line error

#30

Post by cesis » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 4:33 PM UTC

dumbfounder wrote: post #22

wccrawford wrote: post #3

And yet, you can bet that they'd collect if the error were in their favor. And they probably have. Absolutely disgusting.

Disgusting? So if you see a sign on a car for sale that says $19,95 because a digit fell off, the dealer is obligated to sell it to you at that price? People and systems make mistakes, that doesn't mean it's "disgusting" that they protect themselves financially from those mistakes.

It's more like - dealer sold you the car for $19.95, then came after you and demanded the rest $19k because of the error.