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Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

theguardian.com

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Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#611

Post by jonas21 »

sebringj wrote: post #362
wahern wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I like theme parks.[1] It's sad because in America we've largely relegated what should be a normal living environment to fascimiles of imaginary places. Actually, I live in San Francisco and the "downtowns" of each neighborhood do allow kids some freedom away from their parents (e.g. to dart in and out of stores and restaurants without waiting for the parent), but it's limited to a single block unless you…

I think there is a big difference though. Theme parks are super over crowded and you end up having sore feet and wait in long lines all day and still having to hold on to your kids of fear of losing them in the crowd. I guess its still better than fear of death.

I visited San Juan Capistrano the other day, and it reminded me quite a bit of a theme park.

There's not much housing around the historic area, so nearly everyone drives in and parks in one of the parking lots surrounding it. Then they spend a few hours pretending like they live in this walkable, historic town, maybe they visit the Mission, then it's back into the car and the suburbs.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#612

Post by Sharlin »

briandear wrote: post #357
Sharlin wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's the problem with the tyranny of the majority. The fact that people want unsustainable living doesn't mean unsustainable living should be encouraged. See also Hume's guillotine [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem

How exactly is it unsustainable? Are we running out of something? Are we running out of electricity? The idea that cars are unsustainable is ridiculous. Just because they may not fit into sonmeone’s desire for increased government control of mobility doesn’t make them unsustainable. Every generation seems to think their generation will be the last, unless we “do” something. They were likely debating horse carts in En…

Call me when all cars are electric and all that electricity – not to mention the batteries and everything else – is produced by sustainable means. Burying your head in the sand and figuring that someone is going to solve the problem at some point does not work. Never mind all the people who want to believe the problem doesn't exist in the first place, in order to maintain the belief that their lifestyle is fine.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#613

Post by pixelbeat__ »

It's interesting how people's expectations and attitudes develop. I remember landing at San Diego airport and asking how I could walk the relatively short distance into the city center. I just got looks of derision and directions to the taxi rank. I did attempt to find a walkable route myself to no avail.

It's an interesting contrast to banning cars and essentially banning walking

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#614

Post by bobthepanda »

jimmaswell wrote: post #573
arbitrary_name wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an almost uniquely American point of view. To obtain this freedom you must : 1. Get a license and learn to drive 2. Buy or lease a large, rarely utilised machine 3. Keep it maintained 4. Keep it fuelled 5. Ensure your tax dollars are spent on enormous infrastructure projects 6. Continue paying for the maintenance of said infrastructure 7. Undergo the significant risk of getting in a vehicle, and impose higher…

1. Easy in the US 2. You can get a good reliable used car for under $1000 easily, and I use mine every day 3. Not a big deal 4. 3 5. I don't mind paying taxes for infrastructure 6. 5 7. Acceptable risk for the massive benefit to me 8. Efficiency is constantly improving and there are no emissions from an EV 9. How is that any different from how we shape the landscape for our own benefit in every other way?

40 hours a week at federal minimum wage is $15,000. AAA considers average car ownership cost to be at $6,000 a year. https://www.moneycrashers.com/living-without-car/

That is a ridiculous cost to just throw on poor people. And this is assuming a poor person has a full time job with no dependents, and has no other competing concerns for money.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#615

Post by topmonk »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #463
breatheoften wrote: post #419

Its insane to me how large space-wise small towns in the us (Oregon in mind as I write this) are — with a huge percentage of the real estate devoted to parking lots. Even setting aside the traffic, it’s silly to walk across these towns because businesses are separated from each other by massive parking lots. The traffic is often amazingly inhumane. Many of the small towns in Oregon are formed on either side of the ma…

What really amazes me is the creation of new "Shopping Centres" - miles and miles of independent stores and nothing between them but parking lots. They took the mall and scaled it up so everyone gets a store, and now if I want to go to two places I have to actually drive from one to the other because it's nothing but parking lots and pedestrian hostile roads separating them - sometimes it's a two minute drive, but th…

I wonder, when/if autonomous taxis come about will the whole attitude of catering to cars over than pedestrians will cease.

If people don't have cars, parking won't be a problem, and walking from one store to another rather than paying for a taxi would become preferable. Then more people would have the awful experience of walking half a mile through a giant paved parking lot which would motivate people to change it.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#616

Post by strongtown »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #564
thousandautumns wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thereby driving up demand for living downtown, further driving up rent? Excellent solution.

Or encouraging people to take the train into SF. Of course, not everyone has a convenient train option because the patchwork of cities makes it incredibly difficult to drive a joint transit initiative.

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned building more housing.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#617

Post by bsagdiyev »

dragonwriter wrote: post #605
bsagdiyev wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio... . There is the source for California -- I see it gives exemptions for safety and law (I assume for road works, etc) but generally speed limits are objective based on conditions. It doesn't mean you can drive slow and impede other traffic traveling around you though, which is why there are laws for it. I don't see it enforced as much in San Diego, but whe…

> Quick edit -- that law is for highways, I haven't checked whether this also applies for other types of roads. Note that “highway” in California law has a very broad definition; see https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio... . “Highway” is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel. Highway includes street.

Thanks for that, I wasn't aware of how broad the term was for California. Do you know if (silly question I'm sure) that definition can differ per county or municipality?

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#618

Post by zoom6628 »

We so so need this in Hongkong, especially in the older areas where the streets feel as narrow as a rickshaw. Public transport is excellent and ppl here so unhealthy i general they need the walking anyway! Most of the corridoor from Saiyingpun all the way to North Point at least should be car free. And pretty much all of TST through to Mongkok. More than enough metro lines and bordering causeways to move the masses in an out of the area.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#619

Post by strongtown »

briandear wrote: post #335
the_gastropod wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marketers for cigarettes [1], gogurt, lunchables, cell service, guns, etc. make similar claims. It doesn't make it true. Cars bring convenience, sure. But freedom ? Not owning a car, I've never lost sleep worrying that someone was breaking into my car, I pay no car insurance, no gas, no car maintenance, never pay for toll roads, never get road rage, never sit in traffic. I feel significantly more free today than I ev…

When you have to evacuate, how much freedom do you have then? Going to rely on someone like Ray Nagin to drive you in a school bus?

Sure, because when an evacuation happens, it's just you on the road and nobody else.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#620

Post by bobthepanda »

x220 wrote: post #558
breatheoften wrote: post #419

Its insane to me how large space-wise small towns in the us (Oregon in mind as I write this) are — with a huge percentage of the real estate devoted to parking lots. Even setting aside the traffic, it’s silly to walk across these towns because businesses are separated from each other by massive parking lots. The traffic is often amazingly inhumane. Many of the small towns in Oregon are formed on either side of the ma…

Chalk it up to the fact that almost literally every European city developed while people still traveled on horses, and nearly every American city saw 90% of its development when cars existed. If Americans already need cars because cities are so far apart and it isn't yet feasible to rely on public transportation across states and the country, why bother making cities that resemble European, pre-steam engine city layo…

It always comes back down to money. Suburbs are inherently less efficient; you need more sewage, more electric, more road, etc. to serve the same amount of people. And this is before we consider that suburban houses are much farther away and apart, much bigger spaces with more heating and AC requirement, etc. Suburbs generally don't make enough money through taxes to cover their lifecycle costs.

The first generation of suburbs is already failing as they become choked by the next generation of suburbs. Ferguson, MO was once a rich suburb of St. Louis. The suburbs of Nassau County, one of the richest US counties by median income, have been under state fiscal control since 2000.

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