Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The European Union versus the Internet

stratechery.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 211 posts

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#141

Post by kazen44 »

timrichard wrote: post #120
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to guess you're not from Europe based on that definition? The EU constrains companies to the benefit of individuals. It's not stopping people from hurting themselves, it's stopping them from being hurt by companies who have phenomenal power over us, more power in some ways than states themselves have.

There are over 30,000 [1] paid lobbyists in Brussels, and you think "the EU constrains companies to the benefit of individuals". And these latest outrageous copyright and link proposals are widely regarded to be for the benefit of certain German media magnates. Whatever criticism the EU attracts for its spending, the PR budget looks to be pretty good value. I'm really baffled by some of these perspectives. [1] https:…

The EU actually has extensive law about lobbying.[1] It actually tries to be transparant in regards to how lobbying happens and what kind of lobbying happens.

Also, your 30K figure also includes lobbyists from civil rights groups and other NGO's. Not just purely companies.

Lobbying happens, it is how people influence politics. Better to be transparant and open about it them to hide it.

[1] http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2015/57280...

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#142

Post by kodablah »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #135
tomp wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're just complaining because it's EU and not US. American DMCA law is much worse than GDPR, predates it by like 2 decades, and basically the whole world is subjected to some of it (because US companies are global monopolies).

The people complaining about the GDPR have been complaining about the DMCA since before it was passed.

Exactly. It's when the complaining stops (and/or the complainers are demonized) that the mandate to move on to more invasive laws is given.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#143

Post by deltron3030 »

charleslmunger wrote: post #47
deltron3030 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>GDPR is not a law about "The Internet", it is a law about company records. It applies to Google, but it also applies to the Pakistani food stand on the corner. It affects Google a lot more, sure. It's about full stack owners vs. people who depend on modules to operate, not size of the company. And controlling or maintaining consistentcy across all those modules might be difficult when it comes to GDPR. Just think ab…

I am not a lawyer, but GDPR explicitly covers the plugin pipelines - they're "processors". The requirements for processors are basically that you can only use processors that are compliant with GDPR themselves. Any well designed regulation disallows skirting liability by subcontracting out functionality. Is that really unreasonable? It describes pretty clearly how to be a compliant processor, and it's basically sayin…

> The requirements for processors are basically that you can only use processors that are compliant with GDPR themselves.

How can you be sure that the compliance isn't just marketing? There is no official cert body or institution for GDPR afaik. Isn't it all trust based at this point?

Actual certification would require a huge continous investment, where a outside body would constantly monitor and proof your code and its side effects.

>Any well designed regulation disallows skirting liability by subcontracting out functionality. Is that really unreasonable?

But what if this industry, especially the small business world is based on subcontracting out functionality? They're basically ignoring an existing ecosystem and methodologies that developed over a decade in that space.

>It describes pretty clearly how to be a compliant processor, and it's basically saying that you have to have a contract with the "controller" that requires you to fulfill the same responsibilities that the controller would have under GDPR if they were doing the work in house.

If its so clear, why isn't there an official cert body or institution? Afaik there is none. Compliance refers to the interpretations of the GDPR text, not real logical safety on an technology level, the laws aren't detailed enough for that. To cert or guarantee safety they'd have to monitor code repos and analyze side effects of the code on a constant basis.

I think the correct way to handle data privacy is on an individual level, within the operating system and browser, making sure that your privacy settings are respected. A page that doesn't conform to your settings just wouldn't load, you get the internet you deserve.

Everybody should also have the opportunity to learn the basics of using an internet connected device, similar to driver licenses. The individual level would be a much better fit, and potentially real solution and not just a castle in the sky.

GDPR relies on trust, one little bug that results in a privacy issue and you can close up shop as business. It's a setting where those that employ cyber warfare to hack competitors and have those resources win. Politicians who brought you GDPR are the same ones that wage wars on drugs. Total morons.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#144

Post by jamespo »

timrichard wrote: post #120
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to guess you're not from Europe based on that definition? The EU constrains companies to the benefit of individuals. It's not stopping people from hurting themselves, it's stopping them from being hurt by companies who have phenomenal power over us, more power in some ways than states themselves have.

There are over 30,000 [1] paid lobbyists in Brussels, and you think "the EU constrains companies to the benefit of individuals". And these latest outrageous copyright and link proposals are widely regarded to be for the benefit of certain German media magnates. Whatever criticism the EU attracts for its spending, the PR budget looks to be pretty good value. I'm really baffled by some of these perspectives. [1] https:…

Relative to the US, yes it does

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#145

Post by makapuf »

furgooswft13 wrote: post #89
mdpopescu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Best part about it is much fewer laws will be written since so few understand that language. Legalese didn't seem to have that effect.

Yea but you can throw legalese madlibs into a document and get it passed as law as long as you provide the legislators enough kickbacks. Haskell has to compile at least, and be pure and stuff. Who's up for a Pure Functional Programming government.

Sometimes I get the impression we get pure fictional programs before the elections ...

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#146

Post by Matticus_Rex »

davidhyde wrote: post #39
mrmekon wrote: post #18

In my network of friends, which is within the EU and comprised entirely of EU citizens and spans multiple EU tech companies from dinky startups to Giant Unicorn, GDPR has been almost universally approved. We had to implement it, and generally feel better for having done so. The Giant Unicorn employees were dismayed by how little time they were given for such a giant task, but were in support of the law. Everybody is…

I 100% agree with this. GDPR is a shining beacon of success and it blows my mind that it came from the same clowns that made the cookie law. They covered my internet with cookie banner graffiti and now they want to mess with something as fundamental as a hyperlink.

I'm having trouble figuring out what world you live in. The GDPR has accomplished nearly nothing at huge cost. Maybe the upsides will look better a few years down the line with some enforcement history, but this GDPR Compliance Coordinator strongly doubts it.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#147

Post by Matticus_Rex »

Nursie wrote: post #72
deltron3030 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>GDPR is not a law about "The Internet", it is a law about company records. It applies to Google, but it also applies to the Pakistani food stand on the corner. It affects Google a lot more, sure. It's about full stack owners vs. people who depend on modules to operate, not size of the company. And controlling or maintaining consistentcy across all those modules might be difficult when it comes to GDPR. Just think ab…

If you're using that many modules that you don't understand what's happening with your customer's data and can't easily control where it goes or what it's used for, I'm sorry, but I don't want to do business with you.

Who do you do business with, then?

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#148

Post by pluma »

betterunix2 wrote: post #126
Bjartr wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the GDPR says "good riddance to you if you can only make money by tracking people without the tracking itself being part of your value to them". Not all business models deserve to succeed.

IOW the EU is picking winners and losers in the market. If your business model is based on building models of user behavior and monetizing that, you will not be allowed to succeed. If your business model is based on holding a monopoly on the reproduction or display of entertainment, you will be allowed to succeed, at the expense of tech companies whose technologies might have otherwise made your business model obsole…

Yes, it's codifying ethical standards into law. I take it you think the US banning slavery was overreach because it made certain business models illegal? You may disagree, but the basis of the GDPR is that privacy and control over your own personal data is a human right, so violating that right is no legitimate business model.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#149

Post by craftyguy »

AdamM12 wrote: post #122
craftyguy wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have no problem 'freeloading' HN.

They don't run ads to generate revenue. Most content sites do.

There are ads on HN (the "xyz is hiring", and I suspect a non-zero number of articles posted/promoted to the front page are paid ads made to look like content.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#150

Post by Matticus_Rex »

davemp wrote: post #73
ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's absolutely ridiculous. Is she going to let us listen in on all her private phone calls? Read all her emails? Please tell me this has no hope of passing...

Whoever purposes such an irresponsible and evil law should also have no hope of a future in politics.

That's a really nice thought.
Post reply on HN