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Software disenchantment

tonsky.me

31–40 of 98 posts

Re: Software disenchantment

#31
Well, if you take the analogy of the car, that today is working quite efficient and hassle free, that, I would argue, is in large part due to regulation and bureaucracy. Something that the Internet and computing does not have at the moment.

That word has some negative connotations, but I do not think that is fair, considering the cars, or the airplanes, history. We assume that the car we purchase has seat belts and catalytic converters which will prevent lots of injuries and effects on the climate and living things. These are mandated by laws in many places, and that is a good thing, because we can worry about the entertainment system, service deals, colour and style and still get a car that meets certain "basic" requirements. I say "basic" as they can be quite advanced, we would hardly buy a car without ABS or a crash rating today.

Computer programs and websites do not have to meet any regulations and they therefore easily succumb to bloat, because there is no one being blamed for them being unusable, which is broad, but a website over, say, 1MB is quite large. Plenty are wasting CPU cycles to render and compute, which might not be as polluting as exhaust from a car, but it is polluting and stealing time.

Early cars had to change oil very often or have it refilled, because it leaked in to the combustion chamber or gasses leaked out. This causes emissions to be quite hostile, which is bad because it affects the environment and living beings respiratory systems, among other things. We then got laws regulating this and manufacturers were keen to improve the performance of the engines. Today there are 1,6 liter, four cylinder engines that work well pulling loads and still manage to have a good fuel economy when driven under average conditions.

Another thing is that customers got fed up with steel wheels and rubber tires that blew out all the time and the wheels on our transports improved as well, but that took some years to happen, the Internet and personal computers are still quite young and immature, there is still time for it all to mature quite a bit, and this article is a good step on the way towards that in my opinion.

UX is maybe not as simple to regulate as cars and their emissions and safety standards but I would say that we should not be all to opposed to some more requirements or maybe even laws regarding how we operate computers and programs in some respects and let the market, users that is, dictate what is desired in other areas. We might like to think that the internet is the wild west, so to say, but this has led to some mighty bloat and headaches for all involved, as this article shines a light on.

Re: Software disenchantment

#32
yeah, wellcome to the club. i am making software for 30 years, and... IMHO, although last 10 years might have been worst, in terms of bloat and inefficiency and dont-cares-ness, it's not just that. That's a result.. It's more like IT industry as such is trying to grow for the sake of growing. At any price. Much like a lot of other industries and/or institutions, trying to exist for the sake of existing. And they will.. as long as there are users of.. "Each train has its passengers, the saying goes."

Re: Software disenchantment

#33

yeah, wellcome to the club. i am making software for 30 years, and... IMHO, although last 10 years might have been worst, in terms of bloat and inefficiency and dont-cares-ness, it's not just that. That's a result.. It's more like IT industry as such is trying to grow for the sake of growing. At any price. Much like a lot of other industries and/or institutions, trying to exist for the sake of existing. And they will…

> Much like a lot of other industries and/or institutions, trying to exist for the sake of existing.

You've just described the purpose of literally every life form.

Re: Software disenchantment

#34
> Windows 10 takes 30 minutes to update. What could it possibly be doing for that long?

Backing up the old Windows folder, decompressing (I guess downloadable updates use something very efficient in terms of compression like lzma), and probably some sleep() — I guess the update being slower makes users feel like it's something substantial.

> Android system with no apps takes almost 6 Gb

That "System" figure is the size of all partitions that aren't data. Quite a lot of that is literally wasted space.

Re: Software disenchantment

#35
post #5

> Recently our industry’s lack of care for efficiency, simplicity, and excellence started really getting to me, to the point of me getting depressed by my own career and the IT in general. Loading this website resulted in 5.3MB being downloaded over 42 requests.

I don't think he authored that though.

He didn't say he didn't use software; he wishes they were lighter.

Re: Software disenchantment

#36
Nice try. It's everyone's wish that somebody makes efficient software for them. But when it comes to themselves, they just lump some random components together that seem to do the job and call it a day.

Re: Software disenchantment

#37
post #31

Well, if you take the analogy of the car, that today is working quite efficient and hassle free, that, I would argue, is in large part due to regulation and bureaucracy. Something that the Internet and computing does not have at the moment. That word has some negative connotations, but I do not think that is fair, considering the cars, or the airplanes, history. We assume that the car we purchase has seat belts and c…

And much like software, there are many of us who get nostalgic about the days when automobiles just worked, and were knowable, not inscrutable piles of nonsense.

Re: Software disenchantment

#38
1) some of these complaints are invalid: yes Linux kill a "random" process when there is no more memory available, but except in 'static' configuration where everything has a known size, what's the alternative?

You can have a misbehaving application use lots of memory but it's a normal application whose memory allocation fail, what do you do?

2) this bloat isn't new: I remember being amazed by BeOS responsiveness compared to Windows or Linux but now I spend 80% of my time in a webbrowser and I doubt WebKit is going to be faster on Haiku than it is on other OSs..

Re: Software disenchantment

#39
I share the sentiment, but I also appreciate the truth.

> Text editors! What can be simpler? On each keystroke, all you have to do is update tiny rectangular region and modern text editors can’t do that in 16ms.

I use text editors with syntax highlighting. Also IDEs with completion, error highlighting, etc. Assuming we are talking about those, updating a rectangular region is not "all you have to do". (Though it is the only thing that has to be done synchronously.)

> Windows 10 takes 30 minutes to update. What could it possibly be doing for that long? That much time is enough to fully format my SSD drive, download a fresh build and install it like 5 times in a row.

You can format an SSD, download a multi-gig image and install it in under 6 minutes?

> The whole webpage/SQL database architecture is built on a premise (hope, even) that nobody will touch your data while you look at the rendered webpage.

What?

> Ever seen this dialogue “which version to keep?” I mean, bar today is so low that your users would be happy to at least have a window like that.

I'm failing to see the problem with that dialog. It's hardly new. Vim:

    WARNING: The file has been changed since reading!!!
    Do you really want to write to it (y/n)?
> Nobody thinks compiler that works minutes or even hours is a problem.

Everyone thinks that a problem. It's the reason that memory-bloating scripting languages the author is shitting over have become so popular.

> We put virtual machines inside Linux, and then we put Docker inside virtual machines, simply because nobody was able to clean up the mess that most programs, languages and their environment produce.

Huh? When will you put virtual machines inside Linux and then Docker inside those virtual machines. (Maybe a Docker dev testing against different kernel versions?)

> Linux kills random processes by design.

It can kill processes (configurable). But AFAIK it doesn't do it randomly.

> Programs can’t work for years without reboots anymore.

Anymore? Really? I reboot my Windows computer one-tenth as often as twenty years ago.

---

Well, there might be problems, but as least the author is not overgeneralizing, right?

> Nobody understands anything at this point. Neither they want to.

> What’s worse, nobody has time to stop and figure out what happened.

> Nothing stops us from making build process reliable, predictable and 100% reproducible. Just nobody thinks its important.

> We’re stuck in local optima and nobody wants to move out.

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