Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 399 posts

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#301

Post by forapurpose »

pastor_elm wrote: post #208
ivraatiems wrote: post #101

I'm curious - supposing HN had the power to decide, would you replace Elon Musk as CEO of Tesla? What kind of future does the company have without its founder? Personally, I think I would be much more confident in Tesla, and much more likely to buy a Tesla product, if he were not in charge.

No. Use the Apple model. Steve Jobs was needed until the IPhone was really established (not to mention the IPod.) Only then should you bring in a guy like Cook.

> Use the Apple model. Steve Jobs was needed until the IPhone was really established ...

The Apple model was to fire their impetuous founder, decline slowly into mediocrity, bring back the founder, and then achieve historic levels of success. Perhaps Musk needs a Jobs-like break?

> until the IPhone was really established (not to mention the IPod.) Only then should you bring in a guy like Cook

If Jobs was healthy, he'd still be running Apple. And maybe they would have done something visionary since the iPad.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#302

Post by gamblor956 »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #295
danso wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wouldn’t settle it for $20M because libel damages aren’t capped at ~$400K in the UK. It doesn’t take “dozens of detectives” to undermine Unsworth’s story, but Musk has not yet managed to show anything, not even a FB or forum post, that would contradict Unsworth’s assertion of when he first visited Thailand. The stereotype of white men going to Thailand for sex tourism isn’t proof. And to think it is evidence is in…

My point was that even if true (what Musk said) he showed his pettiness in getting involved with someone that criticized him. As for the libel amount in USA, there's a limit too. Even if the jury goes haywire judges and appeal courts intervene. As for the truth...we don't really know until there's discovery

There's no statutory limit on damages for defamation per se under California law. It's literally whatever the jury decides is appropriate, modified by what the judge thinks is reasonable.

EDIT: added the "per se" since regular defamation requires proof of damages but the per se form does not.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#303

Post by forapurpose »

ivraatiems wrote: post #167
philwelch wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would sell Tesla to a large conglomerate that actually understands car production, like Toyota or VW.

Isn't there a good chance they'd just mothball the whole company and keep on making regular gasoline-engine cars?

> Isn't there a good chance they'd just mothball the whole company and keep on making regular gasoline-engine cars?

All of those companies - and the entire industry - are investing heavily in their own electric cars; some already have announced dates when they will stop production of gas engines IIRC. Depending on the price, of course, I imagine they'd love to add Tesla's prestige, patents, and maybe their talent.

My uneducated guess is that's how Tesla will end, a division of a major car-maker. When did GM last add a new brand? Imagine the bidding.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#304

Post by bdcravens »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #281
rayiner wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All great points. This is a lot worse than it probably seems to most people on HN. Imagine a prosecutor telling a jury that Elon funds a lavish lifestyle (with lots of details of the excess) with loans against his Tesla stock. That shorts of the stock threatened him personally, because of those loans, and alleging that he threw the $420 figure out there to counter-act the shorts. That’s a terrible narrative to have t…

>> Imagine a prosecutor telling a jury that Elon funds a lavish lifestyle (with lots of details of the excess) with loans against his Tesla stock. Not going anywhere. Even if Tesla goes to zero, Musk still is a billionaire, 10 times over with SpaceX. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX#Ownership,_funding_and_... It's not greed, he just hates that some don't bow to him.

Indeed, and to that end, the punishment could be that he is barred from serving as an executive or board member. I think that would be a far deeper punishment to him than if you took every penny of his.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#305

Post by bdcravens »

supernovae wrote: post #283
MrEfficiency wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ive said really stupid stuff on Twitter and I lost fans as a result. I cannot explain myself in only a few hundred characters, especially when people dont click links, or only see a small portion of the situation. I did learn my lesson in my 20s.

twitter wasn't around when we were in our 20s...

I can't speak for everyone, but I for one am glad about that

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#306

Post by hef19898 »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #295
danso wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wouldn’t settle it for $20M because libel damages aren’t capped at ~$400K in the UK. It doesn’t take “dozens of detectives” to undermine Unsworth’s story, but Musk has not yet managed to show anything, not even a FB or forum post, that would contradict Unsworth’s assertion of when he first visited Thailand. The stereotype of white men going to Thailand for sex tourism isn’t proof. And to think it is evidence is in…

My point was that even if true (what Musk said) he showed his pettiness in getting involved with someone that criticized him. As for the libel amount in USA, there's a limit too. Even if the jury goes haywire judges and appeal courts intervene. As for the truth...we don't really know until there's discovery

You are still considered inocent until proofen and found guilty. Which is agood thing IMHO.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#308

Post by _audakel »

S_A_P wrote: post #232
orcdork wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sometimes its possible to care so much that you lose sight of what is important." Oh come on.

Not sure what you think is wrong with this statement. Seems to me that he let his hubris, lack of sleep and desire to stop the short sellers get in the way of using a bit of discernment. For him that tweet was a weapon against the shorts. I have no reason to doubt that he is fully committed to Tesla being successful, so I stand by the statement.

Yayy. Elon fan boys unite!

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#309

Post by chiefalchemist »

propter_hoc wrote: post #40
simias wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not super knowledgeable in the stock market, what would he have gained from destroying the shorts? I understand that shorts are effectively a bet that the stock will go down but do they actually damage the company in any way? At a glance it sounds like trying to break the thermometer because you think it's too cold out there, the stock wasn't at risk because of the shorts, instead there were shorts because some i…

Tesla's stock price is very high right now, largely on the basis that many investors expect it to do well in the future. This high valuation makes it easier for Tesla to raise more money to fund its future ambitions. The short sellers are promoting a story that Tesla will not do well in the future, and is overvalued today. If they manage to convince other investors of this story, the stock price may decline and hinde…

> "he would prefer that skeptics stay quiet and stop trying to ruin his company's valuation."

Yes, as would any company. He went public. He should have known better. If he looking for unconditional love then the stock market is not the place.

I don't think Musk is a bad guy. Torn, tired and confused ATM but not a bad guy. Unconventional thinkers + doers always come with some baggage. It's part of the profile. However, in this case, he should have kept his mouth shut and channeled that energy into proving the nay-sayers wrong.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#310

Post by gamblor956 »

Timmah wrote: post #154
chollida1 wrote: post #5

The sad piece of karma in all of this is that Musk tweeted in an effort to destroy the shorts. His tweet turned out to: - give the shorts a big dip in his stock, - an investigation by the SEC - an investigation by the DOJ - the backing off of a deep pocketed investor in the Saudis - Him potentially being personally liable, which would mean having to step away from SpaceX and Tesla if he was found guilty of fraud. Thi…

Such a great land we live in where a CEO is investigated within weeks by criminal justice agencies for making a few tweets, but during the 2008 crisis other kinds of fraud (approving loans without verifying income, robo signing of "contracts") that cost people jobs, homes, and even lives, got CEOs unprecedented bonuses and billions in interest free loans to keep their ships afloat. God bless the USA.

The CEO in question may have violated multiple state and federal laws.

The problem during the crisis was that many of the things you listed weren't illegal because the laws and regulations that would have made them illegal had been rescinded in the years or decades prior. Thus, the CEOs got to keep their jobs and their bonuses and their freedom because even though what they were doing was highly immoral, it wasn't illegal.

Post reply on HN