Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#291

Post by meddlepal » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

onetimemanytime wrote: post #281

rayiner wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All great points. This is a lot worse than it probably seems to most people on HN. Imagine a prosecutor telling a jury that Elon funds a lavish lifestyle (with lots of details of the excess) with loans against his Tesla stock. That shorts of the stock threatened him personally, because of those loans, and alleging that he threw the $420 figure out there to counter-act the shorts. That’s a terrible narrative to have t…

>> Imagine a prosecutor telling a jury that Elon funds a lavish lifestyle (with lots of details of the excess) with loans against his Tesla stock. Not going anywhere. Even if Tesla goes to zero, Musk still is a billionaire, 10 times over with SpaceX. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX#Ownership,_funding_and_... It's not greed, he just hates that some don't bow to him.

Hubris.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#292

Post by stochastic_monk » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

danso wrote: post #284

polkapolka wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I give Musk a little bit more credit than brutely calling someone a pedo without any proof. If you are as rich as Musk, there must be someone you can pay to dig up dirt on your opponents. Now there may be more trouble in showing that proof than settling. 400k is nothing for Musk, but principles and hurt ego are priceless.

Musk had repeatedly challenged reporters to “investigate” Vernon Unsworth, and they did. They found no criminal records in the UK or Thailand, no marriage records, and AFAIK, no record of Unsworth visiting or moving to Thailand in the timespan Musk describes. They did however find Unsworth’s girlfriend, who is in her 40s and had been posting about her relationship on social media for years, which would support Unswor…

I hope he does this not because he’s a good person but just because I want Tesla to succeed and I don’t want his stupidity to ruin its chances.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#293

Post by tedunangst » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 7:05 PM UTC

tomovo wrote: post #276

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dig up dirt on your opponents How does a man risking his life to save children halfway across the planet qualify as an opponent?

He said Elon's rig was total shit.

Seems like a better response would be to prove your submarine is awesome than claim the detractor is a pedo. But I'm not the smartest man in the world.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#294

Post by Fricken » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #175

chollida1 wrote: post #5

The sad piece of karma in all of this is that Musk tweeted in an effort to destroy the shorts. His tweet turned out to: - give the shorts a big dip in his stock, - an investigation by the SEC - an investigation by the DOJ - the backing off of a deep pocketed investor in the Saudis - Him potentially being personally liable, which would mean having to step away from SpaceX and Tesla if he was found guilty of fraud. Thi…

One of the episodes on the Netflix documentary Dirty Money is about short sellers with regards to certain pharma stocks (the one click baiting with Skreli in the thumbnail but not in the story, otherwise it is a great watch). And one thing that struck about me about the short seller they interviewed was her analytical and systematic approach to it. What she was looking for was yet to be recognized flaws in a certain…

Short sellers are not mean, it's a good thing they exist. They're calling out companies they believe have serious problems, to the benefit of shareholders who are being misled.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#295

Post by onetimemanytime » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

danso wrote: post #286

onetimemanytime wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This lawsuit is peanuts to Musk, money wise. Say he settles it for $20 million, that's nothing. And maybe Musk hires dozens of detectives that find out later that Unsworth went with underage girls (a lot of Europeans with some money do over there.) Still it's very petty of Musk to pick a public fight with a "commoner"

He wouldn’t settle it for $20M because libel damages aren’t capped at ~$400K in the UK. It doesn’t take “dozens of detectives” to undermine Unsworth’s story, but Musk has not yet managed to show anything, not even a FB or forum post, that would contradict Unsworth’s assertion of when he first visited Thailand. The stereotype of white men going to Thailand for sex tourism isn’t proof. And to think it is evidence is in…

My point was that even if true (what Musk said) he showed his pettiness in getting involved with someone that criticized him. As for the libel amount in USA, there's a limit too. Even if the jury goes haywire judges and appeal courts intervene.

As for the truth...we don't really know until there's discovery

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#296

Post by pbreit » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 7:10 PM UTC

Asparagirl wrote: post #38

chollida1 wrote: post #5

The sad piece of karma in all of this is that Musk tweeted in an effort to destroy the shorts. His tweet turned out to: - give the shorts a big dip in his stock, - an investigation by the SEC - an investigation by the DOJ - the backing off of a deep pocketed investor in the Saudis - Him potentially being personally liable, which would mean having to step away from SpaceX and Tesla if he was found guilty of fraud. Thi…

It’s important to note that Elon screwed over the “longs” (people holding TSLA stock) too, not just the shorts. Many people and funds bought more TSLA stock in the $350’s range on the assumption that of course the company could/would go private at $420/share. After all, hadn’t the CEO just said so?

I would never equate "considering" with "of course".

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#297

Post by pbreit » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

dforrestwilson wrote: post #201

Jefro118 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He also said, "funding secured at $420 a share", which wasn't true.

^ Jefro118 is correct. This is the a significant phrase in financial and regulatory circles.

How about on Twitter?

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#298

Post by Fricken » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 7:14 PM UTC

stochastic_monk wrote: post #292

danso wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk had repeatedly challenged reporters to “investigate” Vernon Unsworth, and they did. They found no criminal records in the UK or Thailand, no marriage records, and AFAIK, no record of Unsworth visiting or moving to Thailand in the timespan Musk describes. They did however find Unsworth’s girlfriend, who is in her 40s and had been posting about her relationship on social media for years, which would support Unswor…

I hope he does this not because he’s a good person but just because I want Tesla to succeed and I don’t want his stupidity to ruin its chances.

Many argue that you can't have Tesla without Musk, but I don't believe that's true. There is a paradox that can be observed over and over throughout history: great conquerors rarely make great managers. What Tesla needs now is a manager.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#299

Post by notfromhere » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 7:14 PM UTC

tomovo wrote: post #276

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dig up dirt on your opponents How does a man risking his life to save children halfway across the planet qualify as an opponent?

He said Elon's rig was total shit.

He wasn't wrong, he just dared displease King Elon

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#300

Post by omegaworks » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 7:17 PM UTC

tedunangst wrote: post #293

tomovo wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said Elon's rig was total shit.

Seems like a better response would be to prove your submarine is awesome than claim the detractor is a pedo. But I'm not the smartest man in the world.

It'll be interesting to see if Elon Musk, darling of startup entreprewannabes, gets a pass here.

I hope his followers understand the precedent this sets. Are they truly about engineering solutions to tough problems (as they claim they are), or are they just a cult of personality cultivated to protect a thin-skinned master?