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Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

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Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#191

Post by baddox »

dnautics wrote: post #169
cortesoft wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was born a US citizen though. The requirement isn't that you are born on US soil, but that you are born a US citizen. John McCain was born in Panama.

technically it says you must be a 'natural born' us citizen. who the hell knows what that means. If we assume the framers were well-read and fans of shakespeare, this means that anyone born by caesarean section is disqualified from holding the highest office. They were wise enough to know that the dermal microbiome of c-section children is destabilizing creates individuals of temperament ill-suited for the role.

There's a pretty well-accepted interpretation of what it means. There have been presidential eligibility challenges: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause#El...

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#192

Post by rootusrootus »

32847yjo87tj wrote: post #15
harryh wrote: post #4

There are a lot of things to respect about Musk. But he lied on twitter in a direct effort to cause financial harm to people shorting Tesla stock. You can't do that. He should go to jail.

Except he didn't lie. Funding was secured. So much so that when shareholders objected and Musk retracted, the Saudi wealth fund went out and invested substantially in a Telsa competitor. This is all drama for drama's sake.

Guess we'll find out. He'll have documentation for the feds, and then they will not charge him with a crime.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#193

Post by jtms »

nostrademons wrote: post #97

Imagine a private company with ballistic missiles and submarines... I was musing the other day that Elon Musk may be planning to run for president. Why? Well, if there's one thing that 2016 showed us, it's that the road to the White House runs through snubbing Wall Street, calling the press a bunch of boring liars, accusing your opponents of pedophilia, making bizarre incoherent tweet storms in the middle of the nigh…

From many of the interviews I have seen/read, he really only seems to care about human beings becoming a multi-planetary species. Everything else is a side show - means to an end. I know you were lampooning both him and the current administration simultaneously, but I still have faith in ole musky and his space ambitions. Right now it would only take one big uninvited space rock for the party to be over, but if we were on a couple other planets the party might go on!

uninvited space rocks == bad

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#194

Post by stephengillie »

lgeorget wrote: post #140
atonse wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As sad as this makes me (because I want Tesla to be wildly successful), I have to agree. This is textbook and brazen stock manipulation, a flat out crime.

I guess I'm a bit off-topic but sometimes I really fail to understand the USA culture. You can make the most outrageous and racist comments because of "freedom of expression" but making speculators lose their shit with a couple of tweets is a "textbook crime" for which you should "go to jail".

Freedom of expression doesn't mean freedom from consequences - just not from government.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#195

Post by astura »

dnautics wrote: post #171
rootusrootus wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He fits the legal definition of natural born citizen.

are IVF children disqualified? Legal citation on the natural born question, please.

The Constitution doesn't define "natural born citizen" but the majority of scholars take it to mean "citizen by virtue of birth" rather than "citizen by virtue of naturalization."

I have no idea why you're talking about IVF children, they aren't legally different from naturally conceived children.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#196

Post by polkapolka »

danso wrote: post #83
chollida1 wrote: post #5

The sad piece of karma in all of this is that Musk tweeted in an effort to destroy the shorts. His tweet turned out to: - give the shorts a big dip in his stock, - an investigation by the SEC - an investigation by the DOJ - the backing off of a deep pocketed investor in the Saudis - Him potentially being personally liable, which would mean having to step away from SpaceX and Tesla if he was found guilty of fraud. Thi…

The small upside of this is that maybe Musk will be convinced to settle the libel suit that was announced yesterday [0]. For the suit filed in the UK, the max loss would be ~$400K (unless it goes to trial and he ends up paying Vern Unsworth's legal costs), and it would spare us the sad spectacle of Musk trying to prove that Unsworth is a pedo. [0] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/cave-rescuer-su...

I give Musk a little bit more credit than brutely calling someone a pedo without any proof. If you are as rich as Musk, there must be someone you can pay to dig up dirt on your opponents. Now there may be more trouble in showing that proof than settling. 400k is nothing for Musk, but principles and hurt ego are priceless.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#197

Post by baddox »

ghaff wrote: post #125
bdamm wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't stop Ted Cruz from running, did it?

Natural born citizen is not unambiguously defined. However, the common interpretation is citizen from birth, which Cruz was by virtue of having a mother who was a US citizen.

The clause in the US Constitution is brief and potentially ambiguous, but there has been no shortage of lawsuits about presidential eligibility and the legal definition in practice seems to be quite unambiguous.

For example, regarding Ted Cruz:

> Two November 2015 ballot challenges in New Hampshire alleging that Cruz was not a natural-born citizen were unsuccessful. In December, a similar lawsuit was filed in Vermont, and an unsuccessful lawsuit was filed in Florida. In January 2016, similar lawsuits were unsuccessfully filed in Texas and Utah, and two similar unsuccessful ballot challenges were filed in Illinois. In February, two similar unsuccessful lawsuits were filed in Pennsylvania and one was filed in Arkansas; a similar lawsuit was filed in Alabama; similar unsuccessful ballot challenges were filed in Indiana; and similar ballot challenges and an unsuccessful similar lawsuit were also filed in New York. In March, a similar lawsuit was filed in New York. In April, a similar ballot challenge was unsuccessfully filed in New Jersey.

> No lawsuit or challenge has been successful, and in February 2016, the Illinois Board of Elections ruled in Cruz's favor, stating, "The candidate is a natural born citizen by virtue of being born in Canada to his mother who was a U.S. citizen at the time of his birth."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause#Te...

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#198

Post by rootusrootus »

ivraatiems wrote: post #167
philwelch wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would sell Tesla to a large conglomerate that actually understands car production, like Toyota or VW.

Isn't there a good chance they'd just mothball the whole company and keep on making regular gasoline-engine cars?

Toyota/GM/Ford/VW/etc did not become big, successful corporations by dictating to consumers what they want to buy.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#199

Post by sctb »

nostrademons wrote: post #97

Imagine a private company with ballistic missiles and submarines... I was musing the other day that Elon Musk may be planning to run for president. Why? Well, if there's one thing that 2016 showed us, it's that the road to the White House runs through snubbing Wall Street, calling the press a bunch of boring liars, accusing your opponents of pedophilia, making bizarre incoherent tweet storms in the middle of the nigh…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18016292.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#200

Post by dx87 »

lgeorget wrote: post #140
atonse wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As sad as this makes me (because I want Tesla to be wildly successful), I have to agree. This is textbook and brazen stock manipulation, a flat out crime.

I guess I'm a bit off-topic but sometimes I really fail to understand the USA culture. You can make the most outrageous and racist comments because of "freedom of expression" but making speculators lose their shit with a couple of tweets is a "textbook crime" for which you should "go to jail".

It's because of the belief that specific acts shouldn't be illegal, just the negative effects caused by those acts. People can say racist things all they want, but if there isn't anyone actually being harmed by it, should they be punished by the government? It's like with Musk, he's not being investigated for a stupid tweet, he's being investigated for a stupid tweet that appears to have been made with the purpose of directly influencing the stock market. Specific acts should only be made illegal if it can be proven that the specific act essentially guarantees that someone will be harmed as a result.
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