Life in the Spanish city that banned cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#201

Post by dsfyu404ed » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 1:53 PM UTC

eloycoto wrote: post #174

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and there are no problems for that. Forcing all deliveries to happen in the early morning sounds like a massive pain in the butt. For example: Forcing a lunch/dinner restaurant to have people there early to deal with inventory or delivering inventory to a diner during breakfast rush are both far from ideal. Any industry that routinely has to get materials (e.g. skilled trades) delivered will be inconvenienced by not…

>Forcing all deliveries to happen in the early morning sounds like a massive pain in the butt. >For example: Forcing a lunch/dinner restaurant to have people there early to deal with inventory or delivering inventory to a diner during breakfast rush are both far from idea TBH,restaurants the most happier with this changes. More people in the streets means more customers. If the van can get into the door, there is an…

>TBH,restaurants the most happier with this changes. More people in the streets means more customers. If the van can get into the door, there is an entry zones, where delivery can be done with less than 5 min walk.

I should have said industrial foodservice. Are there no schools, hotels, etc. in the city center? Do catering services not deliver lunches to the city center?

>Nope, those industries are not in the pedestrian zone, in Galicia, there is a lot of industrial areas for that matter.

Um, yes, you still have skilled trades. These are the people installing new light fixtures in office buildings and replacing the blower motor for a building's HVAC. Not being able to do diagnostic work and then send someone around later in the day to actually perform repairs is like getting shot in the foot to any business that does repair work.

I support not allowing commuter traffic in city centers but not allowing commercial vehicle traffic seems like needlessly cutting the clock cycle of every part of the economy that deals with physical goods by a factor two or three.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#202

Post by machisuji » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 1:54 PM UTC

I'd love to live in a city like this. I spent a couple of days in Dublin and it was just crazy how loud, crowded and congested with cars and buses the city is. Was not really pleasant walking through the city.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#203

Post by TomMarius » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 1:54 PM UTC

deadbunny wrote: post #186

TomMarius wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Around here (this site I mean), the majority opinion doesn't find any problem at all with sleet and snow and cycling. I know. I expected to get this kind of responses. It shows how little empathy this site has for other (older, overworked, with 3 kids, pregnant, ...) people that are just a little different than they are.

Yet those people in other countries manage fine.

The people that don't just aren't typical HN users. There is a very limited subset of people biking during the other half of the year and that's what I'm talking about - the world isn't only composed of young healthy people that don't carry anything and/or anyone and don't drive long distances and don't live in a hilly region and don't have to wear suit/dress to work (or have showers at work).

Saying "countries" is funny. It's varying wildly within a country, even a small one. E.g. my home city of Hradec Králové is built on a completely flat area with mild weather, so of course everyone bikes almost the whole year, but Prague is built on a series of steep hills and enjoys rougher weather, so while you see people biking here, most people don't.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#204

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 1:54 PM UTC

tetromino_ wrote: post #137

fredley wrote: post #2

Pedestrianisation works well in European cities, especially small ones. It's quite common here in the UK, often there are strict time limits on when delivieries can be made, e.g. 6-8am when barriers are open to let vehicles in and out. However this model just does not work in the US, outside of very few places. US cities are designed for cars, and without major redevelopment everything's just too far apart - even wit…

> there are strict time limits on when delivieries can be made, e.g. 6-8am when barriers are open to let vehicles in and out. That is nuts. That means a plumber, electrician, home appliance deliveryman, mover, etc. can only handle one job requiring a vehicle per day. He will have to charge 3-4 times more for his services than someone working in an area where it's feasible to finish 3-4 jobs in a workday. The costs ar…

When you look into the details of these things you'll nearly always find that there are enough exemptions to make it work. If it was genuinely unliveable people wouldn't live there. People have managed to live in Venice for centuries despite it being physically impossible to get motor vehicles around the centre.

https://www.eco-business.com/news/how-a-city-in-spain-got-ri...

"In fact, in most streets there are no physical barriers to keep the cars out. Vehicles making deliveries or locals heading to private garages can still circulate in most places.

“What we did is to create loops to keep people from driving through the city,” Lores explains. “If you enter by the south, you leave by the south.”

The goal of this strategy, which is complemented by severe parking restrictions in all of the central area, is to get rid of what Pontevedra officials call “unnecessary traffic”.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#205

Post by oftenwrong » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 1:55 PM UTC

claydavisss wrote: post #133

dagw wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure there are always going to be people like us who want an 'archaic' life style which require an archaic mode of transportation, but the world shouldn't be optimizing for these people, and I see nothing wrong with making these people pay extra for the externalizes their lifestyles impose.

But in the US, it is the (vast) minority who wants to live a pedestrian lifestyle. If you look around the US you will see that even today, investment in suburbia far outpaces investment in "urbanism". Trucks and SUVs are slowly cannibalizing sedan sales in the US. So not only do people like driving, the vehicles they tend to purchase are increasing in size. If you are suggesting that society somehow prioritizes the 0…

http://cityobservatory.org/the-myth-of-revealed-preference-f...

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#206

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 1:55 PM UTC

thales_m wrote: post #82

What about people who live inside city limits but work elsewhere? For example, I currently reside in Washington, DC but work about 30 min away. There is no public transportation to my work. At night, I park in a garage but there are others who park on the street and commute out of the city every morning.

Part of making this work would have to include rolling out enough public transport.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#207

Post by alkonaut » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 1:56 PM UTC

maaaats wrote: post #181

alkonaut wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that urban planning or suburban planning? Are we talking about better planned (more walkable) inner cities, or are we talkingt about a long term shift in what people wants, such as people not wanting a private back yard? Because outside of cities, as long as people have detatched homes on reasonably sized lots, getting around requires a car. There will simply not be the density needed for efficient public transpor…

I don't see why it requires a car. A suburb neighborhood could have a bus stop somewhere, taking the people to and from a more connected (as in public transport) place/hub. Walking a few hundred meters must be doable? Or maybe the hub (outside the city) could have parking, so you drive there but take public transport from there on?

> I don't see why it requires a car. A suburb neighborhood could have a bus stop somewhere, taking the people to and from a more connected (as in public transport) place/hub.

That's how it works. I walk 600m to my bus stop in my suburb neighborhood. So commuting from where I live is no problem. I don't need a car for that. But all the other transportation (driving kids to various sports practices, going to the forest, the lake, going to the school that isn't along a bus route with kids that can't walk very far etc) is harder. There will always be a gap between the transport I want/need and the transport that can be solved by public transport. So some kind of semi-private transport (e.g. shared autonomous cars) is probably required if the suburban lifestyle is going to be possible without cars.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#208

Post by agumonkey » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 1:57 PM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #92

agumonkey wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think there's a cultural relativism (pardon the anecdotal neologism~) factor. 100 years ago, moving people with a loaded trunk 100miles an hour was heaven. It became an obvious axiom of modern life that "further faster" was always good. To an extent I even think high speed internet is related to that (you can be everywhere without even moving). But I realized that going fast you forget what's near, and you for…

Maybe you only don't feel rushed while walking because you only walk when you have time?

It goes both ways, people do less things when they can't and their lifestyle / social structures goes accordingly. Say villages with things nearby/local.

Another point, I stopped looking for parking spots where I go. I park 1-2 miles before and walk the rest. It actually saves time.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#209

Post by francisofascii » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 1:57 PM UTC

thales_m wrote: post #82

What about people who live inside city limits but work elsewhere? For example, I currently reside in Washington, DC but work about 30 min away. There is no public transportation to my work. At night, I park in a garage but there are others who park on the street and commute out of the city every morning.

If this actually happened, buses would be common. And companies would move to a location on a bus line. If not and you needed a car, here is what you would do. Metro, bike, or bus to the city limit. Then pick up your Zip Car or pick up your private car in a garage.

Re: Life in the Spanish city that banned cars

#210

Post by oftenwrong » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 1:58 PM UTC

montenegrohugo wrote: post #66

fudgy73 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

totally agree, but a question for you and others - what's the point | what's going to happen | why is so much $$ being put into autonomous vehicles?

In relation to the transportation-problem being discussed, autonomous vehicles are much better than normal privately owned cars because (in theory) they do not need any parking, at least not in premium inner city ground. They can just drive away and park somewhere where they aren't disturbing anyone, and come back when needed. Alternatively, if they are part of a car sharing service, the % of time the car is not bein…

You have to account for reduced cost of driving. Not just in dollar cost, but the cost of stress and driving time. This could lead to increased demand for car trips.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox