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Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

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Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#251

Post by alkonaut »

scj wrote: post #246
alkonaut wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is very regional. I have never had a snow day in my entire life because we get snow several months per year. I think the "snow day" phenomenon happens in cities where snow is rare enough that there is no infrastructure in place to take care of it (having that would be more expensive than just accepting everything stops a couple of days per year) AND not every car has winter tyres. After 60cm snow on one…

How cold/humid on average is it? Where I live, temperatures between 2C to -5C make the worst driving conditions (you're typically dealing with a mix of freezing rain, snow, ice, and slush). Even though it's colder, -20C and just snowing isn't as bad to drive in.

It varies a lot, but yes - near freezing temps is much more dangerous to drive in than very cold.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#252

Post by bluGill »

fucking_tragedy wrote: post #57
njarboe wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the current legal environment, self driving taxi cabs everywhere at all times will never exist. Waymo seems to think they can work in Arizona desert though. How many deaths per year would be acceptable? Like you mention, in the US, it seems that zero deaths per year, similar to commercial aviation, would be required. It is a bit of a shame that a tech that could save a million lives a year globally won't be deploy…

> It is a bit of a shame that a tech that could save a million lives a year globally won't be deployed because it can't be made perfectly safe This is a bit of a generous assumption. It very well could turn out that self-driving cars are worse, or no better, than human drivers.

We already know that the assumption is correct for a lot of cases. Self driving cars have logged millions of miles on the road.

The only question is can we make them work in situations that are hard.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#253

Post by bluGill »

ghaff wrote: post #191
wool_gather wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This; arguing that a computer can't drive safely in conditions where a human can't either isn't an argument against computer drivers. Just because humans sometimes get away with it doesn't make it a good idea.

It's not always possible to pull over. If it's snowing so heavily that driving has become dangerous there probably is no shoulder to pull over to, much less a shoulder you can safely pull over to. Source: I've been in these conditions. You do the best you can.

you should pull over before then. There is in my experience plenty of warning to find a hotel first.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#254

Post by SiempreViernes »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #249
SiempreViernes wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many years per death would be acceptable is highly culture dependent. Uber should ask the NRA for branding advice, though they might not be patient enough to put in the work to reach such an untouchable brand.

My gun isn't controlled by a computer and in fact that is fairly strictly banned by the ATF.

Ah, so you agree that avoidable deaths from computer controlled systems are viewed as much worse than avoidable deaths from human controlled systems?

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#255

Post by rayiner »

jryle70 wrote: post #56
seibelj wrote: post #19

I’ve taken downvotes from HN optimists for years about self driving cars. The slightest bit of criticism would have comments calling me an idiot 20 different ways. Then a single dead pedestrian changes all the news articles and the opinions change. We are a very, very long way away from self driving taxi cabs. What a total PR scam that was - but it did help valuations.

Not sure if you have read the article, but it's actually about a company called WaveSense who claims to have developed ground-penetrating radar that can greatly improve all weather autonomous driving. So yes, it's a daunting task but lot of people are working on it and progress is being made. I'd be interested to hear your counterargument.

The article supports his point. This is a press release for technology that may be many years from appearing in a production vehicle. It uses a sensor that isn’t included in the package of sensors used in other self driving vehicles, a package that’s already too expensive for consumer vehicles. Yet the technology seems to be necessary to handling a fairly common road condition.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#256

Post by emodendroket »

notatoad wrote: post #125
emodendroket wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I don't think most bosses in Boston are going to let you stay home every time it snows.

There's a difference between "every time it snows" and "actual blizzard conditions".

Self-driving cars don't deal with either scenario very well yet.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#257

Post by taeric »

Piskvorrr wrote: post #205
taeric wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My naive view is that a simple RFID standardization would solve that. Together with some regulations, of course. Though, this already has to be regulated. Not just anyone can put up a "only park during certain times" sign. (Right?)

Sure, put up a sign "do not park if moon full, no red cars at any time", on your own property. This only differs from the regulated road parking by attributes that are not visible on the ground (ownership). But worse: RFID makes for duplicate signage. What if the visible and data signage differ?

If they differ, then there will be regulation on which applies. No different than current practices. Usually happens if there are two languages.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#258

Post by btbuildem »

Honestly, it seems like a more workable solution would be to improve the roadways with built-in beacons to indicate where a road is, and where it isn't. The cars would work only on the improved infrastructure, but they would work. I suppose there is a danger of nefarious actors spoofing beacons to make you drive off a bridge, but it seems far-fetched.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#259

Post by Shivetya »

btbuildem wrote: post #258

Honestly, it seems like a more workable solution would be to improve the roadways with built-in beacons to indicate where a road is, and where it isn't. The cars would work only on the improved infrastructure, but they would work. I suppose there is a danger of nefarious actors spoofing beacons to make you drive off a bridge, but it seems far-fetched.

it could be more easily done for limited access roads and lanes. like HOV and Express lanes. They are already heavily marked.

Still in the end it requires a combination of changes to how we mark roadways, indicate construction, detours and the like. Think of it like the ADA but for cars.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#260

Post by xapata »

pathseeker wrote: post #184
xapata wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> safely I've seen people do all sorts of foolish things. When the rain is so hard that I can't see more than 15 feet, I pull over and stop.

Nobody said anything about 15 feet but you. If you're pulling over in a normal heavy downpour with 500 ft of visibility, you're less safe than the people who continue to drive. Being pulled over to the side of any high-speed road is an unsafe condition that should be avoided. Self-driving cars would be putting lives at risk if they just pulled over and shutdown on every summer thunderstorm.

With 500 ft of visibility, the auto-steering/auto-propelled car shouldn't have any trouble either.
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