"sew their chaos"?
I'm curious - I would've expected this to be "sow" as in "sowing seeds". Is this an American spelling?
The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
131–140 of 151 posts
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
You clearly don't undererstand the "facts" you're presenting or, more likely, you are being intentionally dishonest.You're comparing data from [1] which is clearly labeled 2012-2015 and using that to argue about the drug policy for the last 50 years. If you really want to understand the "facts" about America's drug policy and the last 50 years of criminal policy there is a lot of academic literature written by some o…
I'm arguing about drug policy for the last 50 years? I disagreed with two false statements of fact: "The crime rates are nearly similar among all races" and "They also let white people off the hook". I said nothing about drug policy.
> I disagreed with two false statements of fact: "The crime rates are nearly similar among all races"
Believe it or not there is a great deal of research about just these questions. You might want to actually review such research before you confidently declare these facts as false. As it is, you've been presented with several highly acclaimed books and responded with cherry picked statistics and banal pedantry. It is reminiscent of climate change deniers who love to link to the Koch-funded study of AFP data while also carefully ignoring the last 50 years of other research. If you or anybody really want to actually understand the dark years of "Tough on Crime" that define America from 1960 to now there's a lot of serious texts out there that presents mountains of data on everything from targeting to minorities to redlining.
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pinker attributes it to cultural shifts, not causes like lead paint. I googled and found his discussion of the subject. It's worth reading. https://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/humfig/11217607.0002.206/--deci...
I really liked Pinker's book, but that was imho one of the weaker sections. For one thing, it more or less says that violence dropped because of "cultural shifts", which is more or less a description of what happened, not an explanation.
Yeah, sounds like hand-waving to me.
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#134"sew their chaos"? I'm curious - I would've expected this to be "sow" as in "sowing seeds". Is this an American spelling?
No, that’s a mistake.
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
"The crime rates are nearly similar among all races" Do you have any stats to back that up? Everything I find says the opposite. A Channel 4 News fact check says: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-amer... "Blacks were disproportionately likely to commit homicide and to be the victims. In 2008 the offending rate for blacks was seven times higher than for whites and the victimisation rate was six…
You clearly don't undererstand the "facts" you're presenting or, more likely, you are being intentionally dishonest.You're comparing data from [1] which is clearly labeled 2012-2015 and using that to argue about the drug policy for the last 50 years. If you really want to understand the "facts" about America's drug policy and the last 50 years of criminal policy there is a lot of academic literature written by some o…
[deleted]
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
I really encourage you to read The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness. Hand waving away racial influences is convenient to some, but definitely not to those affected by it. If you look into the statistics, you'll see that primarily minority communities were targeted by the "tough on crime" era. And these touted "tough on crime" policies only had the effect of enslaving and crippling generat…
"The crime rates are nearly similar among all races" Do you have any stats to back that up? Everything I find says the opposite. A Channel 4 News fact check says: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-amer... "Blacks were disproportionately likely to commit homicide and to be the victims. In 2008 the offending rate for blacks was seven times higher than for whites and the victimisation rate was six…
BTW, how pathetic is it to use a throwaway account to post this nonsense and then rush in to down-vote replies?
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
I really encourage you to read The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness. Hand waving away racial influences is convenient to some, but definitely not to those affected by it. If you look into the statistics, you'll see that primarily minority communities were targeted by the "tough on crime" era. And these touted "tough on crime" policies only had the effect of enslaving and crippling generat…
"The crime rates are nearly similar among all races" Do you have any stats to back that up? Everything I find says the opposite. A Channel 4 News fact check says: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-amer... "Blacks were disproportionately likely to commit homicide and to be the victims. In 2008 the offending rate for blacks was seven times higher than for whites and the victimisation rate was six…
When you just look at race numbers it doesn't correct for things like economic or educational standing.
Besides, isn't this begging the question? You can't really use statistics from the same institution you're trying to evaluate. The wikipedia link you posted gives a good summary of whats misleading about the snippet you chose immediately after that snippet.
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#138"Tough on crime" was always a dog whistle to signal to (most) voters that politicians were willing to lock up minorities for comparably minor crimes. It's good to see that the winds have shifted towards a more just system although there is a long way to go. I think there are many factors that contribute to this trend and would love to see a paper which goes into the details. I would bet that prosecutors have a lot to…
This seems like revisionist history. From the seventies thru the beginning of the nineties, the national homicide rate was double to triple what it is today. We had real crime problems in the "Tough On Crime" era, and we were hitting record crime rates. A lazy Wiki snip: Violent crime nearly quadrupled between 1960 and its peak in 1991. Property crime more than doubled over the same period. Since the 1990s, however,…
Yes, there was a crime spike around the early '90s. Here's the fascinating thing: it went away, everywhere. It didn't just go away in some cities that were "tough on crime" and stick around elsewhere. It went away in every city across the nation, regardless of their local policing. It was a transient phenomenon that probably would have gone away even if no changes happened to the criminal justice system.
Also, one thing that's worth understanding here is that a group of individuals all working under the same values system responding to the same stimuli will typically exhibit the same responses, which can often have the appearance of collusion or organization. And in a way it is, through the shared values system, but not in the overt way many think. That doesn't make the results any more palatable.
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
"The crime rates are nearly similar among all races" Do you have any stats to back that up? Everything I find says the opposite. A Channel 4 News fact check says: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-amer... "Blacks were disproportionately likely to commit homicide and to be the victims. In 2008 the offending rate for blacks was seven times higher than for whites and the victimisation rate was six…
BTW, how pathetic is it to use a throwaway account to post this nonsense and then rush in to down-vote replies?
Hi dnomad. Though I'm personally inclined to agree with the gist of your arguments, the way you're presenting them violates the HN guidelines.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."
Even if you believe someone is arguing in bad faith, the exercise of responding to their best possible interpretation forces us to sharpen our own arguments and makes us stronger. It's a worthwhile constraint.
I hope you'll find a way to accommodate yourself to the guidelines and stick around; if not, I hope you'll find a venue that suits you. Regardless: keep on keepin' on, amigo.
Re: The Number of Youth in Juvenile Detention in California Has Quietly Plummeted
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
This seems like revisionist history. From the seventies thru the beginning of the nineties, the national homicide rate was double to triple what it is today. We had real crime problems in the "Tough On Crime" era, and we were hitting record crime rates. A lazy Wiki snip: Violent crime nearly quadrupled between 1960 and its peak in 1991. Property crime more than doubled over the same period. Since the 1990s, however,…
I really encourage you to read The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness. Hand waving away racial influences is convenient to some, but definitely not to those affected by it. If you look into the statistics, you'll see that primarily minority communities were targeted by the "tough on crime" era. And these touted "tough on crime" policies only had the effect of enslaving and crippling generat…
You misunderstand. I'm simply objecting to the claim that "tough on crime" was a political dog whistle, aka a code word all the voters understood to actually mean "oppress minorities".