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Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

bloomberg.com

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Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#121

Post by DoctorOetker »

jryle70 wrote: post #56
seibelj wrote: post #19

I’ve taken downvotes from HN optimists for years about self driving cars. The slightest bit of criticism would have comments calling me an idiot 20 different ways. Then a single dead pedestrian changes all the news articles and the opinions change. We are a very, very long way away from self driving taxi cabs. What a total PR scam that was - but it did help valuations.

Not sure if you have read the article, but it's actually about a company called WaveSense who claims to have developed ground-penetrating radar that can greatly improve all weather autonomous driving. So yes, it's a daunting task but lot of people are working on it and progress is being made. I'd be interested to hear your counterargument.

I think it would be more succinct to describe WaveSense as ground penetrating radar for positioning purpouses. It's pretty orthogonal to autonomous driving which obviously would benefit from any extra position sensor, but it does not actually contribute autonomous driving.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#122

Post by hef19898 »

sna1l wrote: post #62
gwern wrote: post #14

> Waymo, widely seen as leading the self-driving vanguard, says it has made progress teaching its software to better filter out “noise” from precipitation. The last Waymo leak claims that it is more than just 'progress', but that 'rain is solved', incidentally: https://thelastdriverlicenseholder.com/2018/09/14/waymo-plan...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/08/29/waymos-sel... Surprising that Waymo has figured out rain but not things like left turns. Different problem spaces I'd imagine, but still surprising.

Can that be that in US cities there is not trmendous amount of left turns? At least that was the rwason I heard why the Amazon Logistocs routes in Europe were planned without any left turns driving everybody crazy and adding a lot of wasted time.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#123

Post by hef19898 »

gwern wrote: post #14

> Waymo, widely seen as leading the self-driving vanguard, says it has made progress teaching its software to better filter out “noise” from precipitation. The last Waymo leak claims that it is more than just 'progress', but that 'rain is solved', incidentally: https://thelastdriverlicenseholder.com/2018/09/14/waymo-plan...

I'm by no means an expert for self driving cars or auto-pilots, so take it is just my personal impression.

It seems that developers for self driving cars are dealing with a very different, and in some ways more difficult, environment than aircraft auto-pilots. While cars only have to deal with two dimensions instead of three and cars are still less complex machines compared to planes there are a lot more challenges. Unregulated and not controlled environment, traffic ranging from cars to trucks to motorbikes to bikes to pedestrians to playing children. Less room for sensors in the car, changing road condiitions, animals, you name it. Not a simple problem to solve.

And with a near perfect track record of similar systems in the aerospace sector the bar for acceptance hangs pretty high. Add to that the fact that pilots are trained in the use of these systems while the average joe / jane in a car is not. And the car should be able to drive without driver in the end.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#124

Post by Sir_Vival »

throwawayjava wrote: post #28
scj wrote: post #24

Driving in dry / warm conditions is simple mechanics. Driving in snow and ice is an art. In snow and ice, variables that are typically constant or static become dynamic. Formally dynamic variables now become multi-variable equations. For example: travelling down a hill normally requires dynamically factoring for the extra speed due to the incline. Under blizzard conditions you have to factor ice/snow volume, as well…

The one glimmer of hope that I have is that I am literally incapable of driving in the snow without substantial software assistance, and that's true for literally every other human I know.

I think everyone should learn how to drive in the snow without ABS and the like - just like I did, and I'm 30. The car was $400, front heavy, and had rear wheel drive Learning when you should be applying gas, when you should simply take your foot off, and when you should brake (rarely!) in icy conditions is hard to learn otherwise.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#125

Post by notatoad »

emodendroket wrote: post #63
njarboe wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or most people. If it is actually blizzard conditions, one should have a very serious reason to be on the road. If not, stay at home instead of driving. Snow days are called for schools. Maybe work in general also?

Yeah I don't think most bosses in Boston are going to let you stay home every time it snows.

There's a difference between "every time it snows" and "actual blizzard conditions".

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#126

Post by notatoad »

graycat wrote: post #104
scj wrote: post #24

Driving in dry / warm conditions is simple mechanics. Driving in snow and ice is an art. In snow and ice, variables that are typically constant or static become dynamic. Formally dynamic variables now become multi-variable equations. For example: travelling down a hill normally requires dynamically factoring for the extra speed due to the incline. Under blizzard conditions you have to factor ice/snow volume, as well…

E.g., going down hill in the winter commonly requires putting the transmission in neutral since just the torque to the drive wheels from the engine idling or the engine braking can overwhelm the very tiny traction available. There's a really short description for self-driving cars -- hyperhype.

What? I've been driving in the mountains in Canada for 15 years and have never heard of anybody doing this.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#127

Post by make3 »

hef19898 wrote: post #123
gwern wrote: post #14

> Waymo, widely seen as leading the self-driving vanguard, says it has made progress teaching its software to better filter out “noise” from precipitation. The last Waymo leak claims that it is more than just 'progress', but that 'rain is solved', incidentally: https://thelastdriverlicenseholder.com/2018/09/14/waymo-plan...

I'm by no means an expert for self driving cars or auto-pilots, so take it is just my personal impression. It seems that developers for self driving cars are dealing with a very different, and in some ways more difficult, environment than aircraft auto-pilots. While cars only have to deal with two dimensions instead of three and cars are still less complex machines compared to planes there are a lot more challenges.…

obstacle density is really extremely sparse in the skies compared to the ground
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