Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 224 posts

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#211

Post by mav3rick »

jstandard wrote: post #76
mav3rick wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's compensation driven thinking ? There's a difference between only caring about money vs asking for what you deem fair. Startups always abuse the naivete of new grads and low ball them by saying they are working for a grander cause. That is BS too.

This isn't a fair assessment. Startups can't pay BigCo wages because they don't have the money to. They have to leverage other, harder-to-value benefits which BigCo generally can't offer. Increased responsibility, fewer "rules" on how to execute, more tightly focused mission are a few. Naturally this differs company to company and there are always bad actors. The compensation equation works out differently for each i…

And that is fair. But the parent comment insinuated that anyone asking for money is doing something wrong or is inferior to "someone who truly loves technology". It's a highly personal decision with no right or wrong IMO.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#212

Post by dasil003 »

slededit wrote: post #146
dasil003 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're comparing against Google, outside of Facebook/Netflix pretty much all companies offer less. There are certainly plenty of predatory startups out there that are exploiting labor with unrealistic promises of riches and cap tables that guarantee no such happy outcome for employees. As an employee you have to look out for yourself, but if you set Google as the standard then everyone else is going to look chea…

Then they can’t afford google talent. Short of pay they’d have to offer some other compelling narrative (e.g. HBO’s SV “changing the world through algorithms”). In essence it’s a trick to give up their economic advantage.

My main point is that Google doesn't define market comp, they define top-of-market comp. If you are a software engineer expecting to make Google money then you need to make peace with the fact that there are very very few places where you can earn that. It doesn't mean that all other companies are somehow low-balling or cheating their devs just because they don't have Google's money hose of a business.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#213

Post by jstandard »

mav3rick wrote: post #211
jstandard wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a fair assessment. Startups can't pay BigCo wages because they don't have the money to. They have to leverage other, harder-to-value benefits which BigCo generally can't offer. Increased responsibility, fewer "rules" on how to execute, more tightly focused mission are a few. Naturally this differs company to company and there are always bad actors. The compensation equation works out differently for each i…

And that is fair. But the parent comment insinuated that anyone asking for money is doing something wrong or is inferior to "someone who truly loves technology". It's a highly personal decision with no right or wrong IMO.

Agreed. "Compensation-driven thinking" may not be the best choice of words. Money is always a touchy subject.

I read parent's comment to be more about highlighting the expectations mismatch that occurs sometimes when candidates aren't willing to make compromises and then blame the startup for being "too stingy".

I've seen this mismatch occur on both sides of the table. Startups have a harder time hiring due to as they need to seek people willing to forgo direct compensation in exchange for these harder-to-value benefits. Startups need to stay self-aware they'll have a harder time hiring since the candidate pool is smaller.

Candidates applying to startups also need to temper their salary expectations. If you want to join a startup, especially pre-Series C, and you're not willing to compromise on direct compensation, then prepare for a harder time. The employer pool is much smaller and you're not likely to get the most out of working at a startup if salary is a top priority.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#215

Post by Hydraulix989 »

joshuamorton wrote: post #191
Hydraulix989 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprised there is no one-year cliff now. Also did you have to return the pre-tax amounts or the post-tax amounts?

I stayed beyond one year, so idk. But I'd expect pre-tax. Obviously you wouldn't pay tax on the amount you return, so it's not really an important distinction.

Typically, the company withholds the tax for you though. I've heard stories of companies demanding the pre-tax amounts even though THEY "paid" your tax already by withholding it.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#216

Post by joshuamorton »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #215
joshuamorton wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stayed beyond one year, so idk. But I'd expect pre-tax. Obviously you wouldn't pay tax on the amount you return, so it's not really an important distinction.

Typically, the company withholds the tax for you though. I've heard stories of companies demanding the pre-tax amounts even though THEY "paid" your tax already by withholding it.

That makes sense to me. The company can't unpay your taxes for you, you need to do that (and there are many options to do that, which vary from underpaying your next estimated taxes[1] to just waiting for a larger than normal refund).

And if I recall, if your income increases a significant amount, you aren't penalized for underpaying estimated taxes, so there's ways to "protect" yourself (and also to not overpay).

But making your taxes correct is your responsibility, not your employers. Why would your company reimburse you for taxes that you don't owe?

[1]: For example, when I was interning, the "trick" was to set yourself as having some large number of dependents in the payroll tool. The tools assumed a year long employment, but as a fixed-term employee, you would owe significantly fewer taxes than the estimation. Careful massaging of the number of dependents was a knob you could turn to make your estimated taxes more in line with your actual taxes. This was, according to people I asked, legal as long as it wasn't being done fraudulently.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#217

Post by somethingsimple »

kcorbitt wrote: post #46

I was faced with a similar choice two years ago and went with Google. I really didn't enjoy my time there; turns out big companies really aren't my cup of tea. I also learned much less than I would have somewhere else because Google's stack is quite proprietary and I simply wasn't motivated in that environment. I quit after only 8 months. So it may surprise you that I'd recommend taking the Google offer! In my mind,…

Sort of tangential, but what was work/life balance like at Google for you?

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#218

Post by slededit »

dasil003 wrote: post #212
slededit wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they can’t afford google talent. Short of pay they’d have to offer some other compelling narrative (e.g. HBO’s SV “changing the world through algorithms”). In essence it’s a trick to give up their economic advantage.

My main point is that Google doesn't define market comp, they define top-of-market comp. If you are a software engineer expecting to make Google money then you need to make peace with the fact that there are very very few places where you can earn that. It doesn't mean that all other companies are somehow low-balling or cheating their devs just because they don't have Google's money hose of a business.

I think the issue is everyone is saying they want the best - when it’s clear they either don’t or can’t afford it.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#219

Post by tuananh »

mdhughes wrote: post #43

Do you want safe, reliable money at the cost of your conscience? Do you want to be one tiny cog in the machine that tracks and annihilates humanity? Choose Google. Do you want adventure, high risk of failure, and being able to live with yourself, even if it means struggling sometimes? Choose the startup.

> being able to live with yourself

a bit too dramatic?

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#220

Post by byebyetech »

kcorbitt wrote: post #46

I was faced with a similar choice two years ago and went with Google. I really didn't enjoy my time there; turns out big companies really aren't my cup of tea. I also learned much less than I would have somewhere else because Google's stack is quite proprietary and I simply wasn't motivated in that environment. I quit after only 8 months. So it may surprise you that I'd recommend taking the Google offer! In my mind,…

Even working at Google just for 8 months was a resume booster? Don't they ask you why you left in such a short time?
Post reply on HN