I worked in an Amazon warehouse. Bernie Sanders is right to target them • Hacker News Board

Re: I worked in an Amazon warehouse. Bernie Sanders is right to target them

#131

Post by ArchTypical » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:50 PM UTC

tengbretson wrote: post #50

prolikewh0a wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So the question we have to ask is do we want to live in a society where this treatment is legal? Because we live in this fantasy land of the [dead] 'American Dream', where if you work hard, absolutely bust your ass and kill yourself for 70 years, you'll get to be Jeff Bezos too. If you're complaining about your job, just get a new one , or pull your boot straps up and accept it, it's that easy. We're constantly told…

> Because we live in this fantasy land of the [dead] 'American Dream', where if you work hard, absolutely bust your ass and kill yourself for 70 years, you'll get to be Jeff Bezos too. This never has and never will be the American Dream. The American Dream isn't a rags to riches fairy tale. The American Dream is about inter-generational class mobility. If you bust your tail all your life, you can raise your children'…

Sounds a lot like rags to riches. SMH

Re: I worked in an Amazon warehouse. Bernie Sanders is right to target them

#132

Post by xyzzyz » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:52 PM UTC

apexalpha wrote: post #13

FullMetalBitch wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are the conditions through Europe? I know they went on strike or were about to in Spain, any news from other countries?

Germany did as well. I wish Bezos the best of luck if he thinks the EU unions are as easy to beat as the American ones.

That’s why Amazon already operates a handful, and opening new warehouses in Poland. Amazon doesn’t even sell in Poland, everything sorted and packed in Poland is shipped back to Germany. Beating EU unions is very easy, you simply move to the next town over the border.

Re: I worked in an Amazon warehouse. Bernie Sanders is right to target them

#133

Post by LyndsySimon » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:52 PM UTC

michael_h wrote: post #122

unstatusthequo wrote: post #84

My guess is Amazon is working as fast as possible to automate the warehouses. Then people will complain they lost their jobs...

If the Amazon warehouses become fully automated and a big group of people lose their jobs and there's no safety net, the warehouses will be burned to the ground within 24 hours.

Well, that'll certainly solve the problem of housing and feeding those people.

Re: I worked in an Amazon warehouse. Bernie Sanders is right to target them

#134

Post by war1025 » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:56 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #33

nemo44x wrote: post #2

The people who work in these warehouses should unionize. They have a strong case and their roles can not be outsourced. These things have to be local for it to work - it needs people for it to work. Automation may come eventually but it's not as close as people think. This is the perfect environment for a union to operate in.

After unionising, why would Amazon listen to any of the union's demands? Would the union call a strike? Presumably there will be other employees waiting to take their place as these jobs do not require a lot of training and workers can be replaced quickly. I would guess that Amazon would simply not even speak to any union representatives - there's no advantage to them in doing so.

The whole point of a union is to protect the rights of people who are doing things that don't take a lot of skill.

Re: I worked in an Amazon warehouse. Bernie Sanders is right to target them

#135

Post by s73v3r_ » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:56 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #124

will_brown wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it is never proper for the legislature to target an individual or individual company. In general what you are talking about is a Bill of Attainder and it is unconstitutional. Notwithstanding the - not so clever - name of the Bill, it doesn’t exactly sound like anyone is being targeting so much as a legal framework is being proposed for recipients of corporate welfare to have to reimburse the government, based on cor…

That $14B in SNAP benefits is because Walmart is a significant market share grocer and people who receive SNAP benefits buy food at Walmart with those benefits. I'm not sure how that makes Walmart a villain in the current discussion. Target takes in about $5B revenue from sales under SNAP, Aldi about $4.5B, and Kroger just under $4B. Companies who serve SNAP recipients should be lauded not vilified, IMO. They're serv…

Nobody is upset that Wal-Mart sells food to SNAP beneficiaries. What people are upset over is the fact that so many of Wal-Mart's employees need to go on public assistance because the company refuses to pay them enough to live on.

Trying to pretend this is about Wal-Mart selling food, and not the wages they pay is incredibly dishonest.

Re: I worked in an Amazon warehouse. Bernie Sanders is right to target them

#136

Post by LyndsySimon » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 4:57 PM UTC

ousta wrote: post #39

I guess people just realized that blue collar jobs were horrible? Guess what it is same for many other of those jobs , construction, healthcare, army,...

It's significantly more difficult in some cases.

I grew up (and have moved back to) a very poor area. I've always been a nerd, but had some mental health issues after high school that led to the loss of my college scholarship and I spent several years afterward working traditional blue collar jobs - stocking, loading and unloading trucks, farm labor, construction, electrical, etc.

It was a rough time in my life, but I can honestly say I'm thankful for it. It played a big part in making me who I am, and it's always somewhat shocking to see how much the perception of those around me now who have never experienced such things differs from the reality of most of the country.

I can only assume that my own conception of how things are elsewhere in the world is similarly incorrect. I look forward to getting to the point in my my family and financial life where I can spend some time traveling and seeing how others live first-hand.

Re: I worked in an Amazon warehouse. Bernie Sanders is right to target them

#137

Post by wool_gather » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 5:01 PM UTC

majewsky wrote: post #108

amyjess wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon's treatment of sick people is horrifying: https://sites.google.com/site/thefaceofamazon/home/harassing... I have an online friend who used to work for an Amazon fulfillment center. I say "used to", because she got fired. For being sick. She got food poisoning one day and had to take a week off. When she got sick, she put in a request via MyLeave. Two or three months later, Amazon retroactively denied her reque…

To me (as a European), the concept of "denying sick leave" is just bizarre to begin with. When I present a sick note from my doctor, there is literally nothing that the employer can do about it.

> my doctor

This is also a missing piece for many, many people in the U.S.

Re: I worked in an Amazon warehouse. Bernie Sanders is right to target them

#138

Post by vixen99 » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

394549 wrote: post #51

swarnie_ wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even sure why people work there. The warehouses are universally known to be shitty places but people sign up anyway. Surely if its terrible and no one will work there they will have to improve or pay more? Or am i misunderstanding basic economics?

> Surely if its terrible and no one will work there they will have to improve or pay more? Or am i misunderstanding basic economics? Your mistake was assuming that this is something that could be understood solely with "basic economics." "Basic economics" is a horribly limited intellectual tool-set that will mislead you if you rely on it too heavily.

I wouldn't give too much credit to the advanced economics tool set either given the welter of failed predictions made from on high over the years.

Re: I worked in an Amazon warehouse. Bernie Sanders is right to target them

#139

Post by s73v3r_ » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

jnordwick wrote: post #85

geggam wrote: post #78

If you have a business in a country and cannot afford to pay your workers high enough wages that they can afford to live without society subsidizing them. Then you cannot afford to run your business and are stealing money from the society you are in. This concept that people are welfare bums when they are working is incorrect. Their employers are the welfare bums. If you want to use the infrastructure to run a busine…

It isn't the businesses fault that people don't have high margin skills. There effort should be on improving workforce skill and productive. Not villianising those who employ them.

It is entirely the business's fault that they are not paying their workers enough to live on.

Re: I worked in an Amazon warehouse. Bernie Sanders is right to target them

#140

Post by s73v3r_ » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 5:04 PM UTC

swarnie_ wrote: post #40

LitFan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this downvoted? The only way to make this change is for people to boycott the service.

I'm not even sure why people work there. The warehouses are universally known to be shitty places but people sign up anyway. Surely if its terrible and no one will work there they will have to improve or pay more? Or am i misunderstanding basic economics?

You're making a lot of assumptions, mainly that people have perfect mobility about where they work, and perfect information about what they're getting into.