Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#71

Post by crispyambulance » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 12:40 PM UTC

janlaureys wrote: post #35

sokoloff wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How easy is it for end-users to replace the battery in that off-warranty 5S? Oh. I see. I did it in about 45 minutes the first time, and could do another in 20-30 minutes pretty easily. It's now a 5-year old phone. 10 minutes labor per year is OK in my book. How easy is it for end-users to replace the clutch in that off-warranty Civic? For that matter, how many people even change their own brakes (one of the easies…

The 5 series and SE phones are pretty easy to repair indeed. I've replaced a screen and battery with no experience, a few tools from ifixit and a youtube video without much hassle. It's gone pretty downhill from there with the iphone 6. Especially because the screens are much more intricate.

I've done the 5s battery replacement and would say that it is not "easy" (I work with electronics HW everyday). It is a pain in the ass and requires tools, a serious chunk of time, a clear desk and the right attitude/patience.

This is something that can become routine for practiced folks, or for people that are motivated to try the challenge, but there's a lot of opportunity for mishaps. In fact one way that many people get new phones is when Genius Bars screw-up the battery replacement-- so even pro's can't get it right 100% of the time.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#72

Post by jhokanson » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 12:40 PM UTC

hellweaver666 wrote: post #46

jhokanson wrote: post #28

Has the iPhone screen durability improved at all? It seems like they are (or were?) extremely susceptible to damage from dropping and I always took that as a sign that Apple wanted to force people to upgrade. Edit: Here's a link discussing the issue: https://www.fastcompany.com/3063238/why-wont-apple-fix-the-i...

I would argue yes... they keep on improving the materials in every generation. I have a 7+ and my kid has thrown it across the room multiple times and dropped it onto a wooden floor more times than I can remember and even on concrete a couple of times. Each time my heart is in my mouth but each time it comes up without a scratch.

Yikes! Good to know. I just wonder if there has been any official mea culpa announcement or if I (along with many other people) are just suffering from sort of selection bias. Did the screen material change at all?

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#73

Post by badpun » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 12:41 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #63

badpun wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not worth it to spend huge amounts of time to support a phone you're no longer selling Unfortunately, without the newer versions of the iOS the phone loses functionalities pretty quickly (the apps will require newer versions of iOS), which, quite conveniently for Apple, will make you need to buy a new one. Aka planned obsolescence. But kudos for getting at least one version of iOS to perform better than the la…

Apple has allowed users to download the “last compatible version” since 2012. I reset my first generation iPad - last updated 2011 - last year and was able to load and run older versions of most of the apps for streaming services that were available back then - Netflix, Hulu, Crackle, Spotify, Plex, etc.

"Last compatible" means no more security updates, which basically means - we no longer care about the flaws we've made, go ahead and risk your privacy (including for example your life savings if you bank online).

Also, my experience with the last compatible version (for iPhone 4 IIRC) was that IIRC neither Skype nor Hangouts worked anymore. Plus the whole device was incredibly slow.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#74

Post by justtopost » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 12:41 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #20

beloch wrote: post #12

You know what helps products last longer and reduces waste at the same time? Repairability . The repairability of apple products is so poor that even Apple can't fix most of their own products without replacing surprisingly large portions of any given Apple device. End user repairability has been utterly neglected. Disassembly is frequently impossible without causing damage, and components such as batteries are frequ…

> How easy is it for end-users to replace the battery in that off-warranty 5S? Oh. I see. I did it in about 45 minutes the first time, and could do another in 20-30 minutes pretty easily. It's now a 5-year old phone. 10 minutes labor per year is OK in my book. How easy is it for end-users to replace the clutch in that off-warranty Civic? For that matter, how many people even change their own brakes (one of the easies…

Now, I am clearly not the avg HN reader, but I did a civic clutch last month. 1st one lasted over 200k, and I am replacing the second. It took me about 4 hours with a floor jack, basic tools and a harbor freight impact. But it also lasted 15 years with constant use, and is literally designed a phisical wear item. My battery I replace every 3 years, as my climate is both extremely cold and hot. Its right up front with 2 easily accesable bolts. I think your metaphor is lacking nuance.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#75

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 12:41 PM UTC

cryptos wrote: post #3

That is all very well and I really appreciate Apple's long support for iPhones, but Apple did popularize firmly bonded batteries in its phones and even in notebooks. A battery is a wear part and should be easy to replace. Every thing else leads to more waste.

It is - pay $29-$79 to Apple. How much cheaper would it be to buy the battery yourself?

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#76

Post by mmjaa » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 12:43 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #10

userbinator wrote: post #7

I'll believe them when I see their products come with replaceable batteries and more expansion options, and they start selling parts on their site.

The battery is replaceable in most (all?) of their products, just not by the user. Battery service is sold on their site today.

This is only convenient for users who can afford to be without their phone for a day or two, and also those who are anywhere near an Apple store / service centre. Perhaps there is data that supports the statement "this is most users", but as an Apple customer who travels a lot and is not anywhere near an Apple service centre most of the time, this is very inconvenient. I'd rather just be able to order a new battery, receive it in the mail, and do the replacement myself - having to go through hoops to get Apple to do it, even if its free, is a serious hindrance to productivity. Some of us use our phones for work, and the delay of days, for a service cycle, compared to minutes, if I can do it myself, makes a huge difference to that productivity...

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#77

Post by sokoloff » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 12:43 PM UTC

wrycoder wrote: post #68

sokoloff wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How easy is it for end-users to replace the battery in that off-warranty 5S? Oh. I see. I did it in about 45 minutes the first time, and could do another in 20-30 minutes pretty easily. It's now a 5-year old phone. 10 minutes labor per year is OK in my book. How easy is it for end-users to replace the clutch in that off-warranty Civic? For that matter, how many people even change their own brakes (one of the easies…

You haven’t yet enjoyed replacing the rusted pads and rotors on an eight year old New England car.

Oh, but I have... 30 years here (Cambridge and Southern NH) and every one of mine and many of my friends have been done by me.

Air tools, acetone/ATF mix, and a propane torch are your friend at times.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#78

Post by jpttsn » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 12:44 PM UTC

beloch wrote: post #12

You know what helps products last longer and reduces waste at the same time? Repairability . The repairability of apple products is so poor that even Apple can't fix most of their own products without replacing surprisingly large portions of any given Apple device. End user repairability has been utterly neglected. Disassembly is frequently impossible without causing damage, and components such as batteries are frequ…

Phone lifetime is bottle necked by performance moving on, not by wear and tear.

Even so holes in the wall fix the common hardware issues for like $100.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#79

Post by jsjohnst » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 12:45 PM UTC

cryptos wrote: post #3

That is all very well and I really appreciate Apple's long support for iPhones, but Apple did popularize firmly bonded batteries in its phones and even in notebooks. A battery is a wear part and should be easy to replace. Every thing else leads to more waste.

> Apple did popularize firmly bonded batteries

Have you disassembled an iPhone or even watched a video on it? There’s a pull strip which makes the battery pretty simple to release. It’s not like it’s superglued to the case.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#80

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 12:47 PM UTC

swerner wrote: post #6

If longevity is what they want, they should release private keys and hardware specs for hardware that they drop from their own OS updates. That way, we could continue using old iPads and iPhones, albeit with custom Android builds.

You can still use a first generation iPad today and do all of the stuff you did with it in 2010. Yes you can also redownload older apps from the store.