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Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

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Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#121
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We definitely have systems in place so that employees can not just randomly look at customer data, and when it is necessary it is always logged. Even if we need to debug customer issues we would need a good reason to look at data over just metadata. There are strict requirements for what can go in logs and dashboards also as you can imagine. > Absent any evidence, I'm inclined to think that they do very little to pro…

Are those logs available anywhere? Can users see when Google employees have looked at their data? Have those systems been audited by a third party to ensure they're working properly? I'm sure most Google employees are good people, but your basically telling everybody to trust you that Google's doing it right, but not providing any evidence to back it up.

> Are those logs available anywhere? Can users see when Google employees have looked at their dat

For Google Cloud, we have access transparency logs which let you see when and why your data was accessed.

https://cloud.google.com/logging/docs/audit/access-transpare...

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#124
post #91

> casino cage cashiers don't make minimum wage They actually do. Google it. It's below minimum.

I personally know more than one person who has worked in the cage, they are paid above minimum wage. It's not a great salary or anything, but it's not minimum wage or below. The $30,000/year that a sibling comment says sounds right. The BLS considers them "financial clerks" and doesn't break out casino employees separately[1].

[1] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/office-and-administrative-support/mo...

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why China, and not India or other low COL areas? I don't believe it's as simple as purely salary.

Agreed. Amazon has a large operation in India. And FANG has had development centers there forever. Espionage is unheard of.

cos Indian suppliers aren't as big players yet. I think the Chinese suppliers care about US buyer data which is supplied from Chinese factories.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#126
post #14

> The practice, which violates company policy, is particularly pronounced in China, according to some of these people, because the number of sellers there is skyrocketing. As well, Amazon employees in China have relatively small salaries, which emboldens them to take risks. Sounds like Amazon is finding out the hard way that you need to pay for trust , not just skill. When you pay the absolute bare minimum to your em…

I do not think this is due to low wages. Quality of ones morality is not necessarily measured by ones wage. If one is corruptible/corrupt there’s always a price point (or some other excuse) one falls for it.

I agree somewhat but feel it better to say I dont think wage (assuming it is a living wage) is the biggest variable in moral behaviour.

Wage likely has some weighting (especially under a living standard), but I cant see how people disagree it is a big factor. If the counter point was true we would see reducing corruption as people go up the wealth scale. Whereas I feel there is a reasonable portion of lax morals at every level of wealth, and there is higher proportion of corruption the higher the level. My logic to this and why;

1) Firstly I am aware corruption and 'wealth have a negative correlation in terms of GDP per capita but would position this as, countries with less corruption get wealthier, and culture plays a huge part in corruption so to understand this you have to look within cultures and country to country comparison is not accurate in understanding wealth/corruption relationship.

2) There is always someone wealthier and if 'getting to the top' is a huge personal driver it doesn't matter whether you are in the bottom middle class or the top 5%. There is always more to go up.

3) Corruption scales, so at the lower level someone might be taking a $1k bribe, the wealthy are taking $million bribes so the desire for immoral money scales in value to the risk/reward so people dont become dissuaded as they get wealthier and it is more to do with personal morals.

4) Wealthy have more opportunity for corruption. E.g. as you go up corporate ranks you get bigger budgets/access and more autonomy in signing things off. And there is more grey in decisions for contracts awarded etc. Its a heap easier for a senior person to be corrupt than it is for a minimum wage employee.

Side point: I dont think its fair people downvoted the original comment. HN is better than voting on I disagree with you. It is a fair comment and while maybe could have been expressed more please lets not become the community of hivemind and agenda pushing. Lets have interesting conversation regardless of if it aligns with your opinion.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think this is due to low wages. Quality of ones morality is not necessarily measured by ones wage. If one is corruptible/corrupt there’s always a price point (or some other excuse) one falls for it.

I agree somewhat but feel it better to say I dont think wage (assuming it is a living wage) is the biggest variable in moral behaviour. Wage likely has some weighting (especially under a living standard), but I cant see how people disagree it is a big factor. If the counter point was true we would see reducing corruption as people go up the wealth scale. Whereas I feel there is a reasonable portion of lax morals at e…

Thanks for a detailed reply and analysis. There’s nothing I can disagree in these since it is an attempt to explain further why we do what we do. Also replying to other comments as well, life might leave one without much choice when especially living under deprived conditions and having family. But again it’s all about choices. I think downvotes are to the tone of the comment rather than the statement itself. Fair enough.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#128
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need a stronger culture of paying people better in our western economies. The value and ROI from paying people more is not well promoted enough. Decades of globalism, private equity acquisitions, and corporate competition obsessed business literature where lower prices is always revered. But in knowledge/service based industries it's not always about shaving pennies to make businesses better and there are many cha…

> We need a stronger culture of paying people better in our western economies. This is more of a political issue than a cultural one. Companies always pay what they have to pay to get workers they need. The problem is we have policies that depress wages. For example, the H1B program nominally isn't supposed to have foreign workers competing with domestic ones, but the rules are easy to game, so it does. The easy fix…

It's also culture.

https://pando.com/2014/01/23/the-techtopus-how-silicon-valle...

> In early 2005 ... Apple's Steve Jobs sealed a secret and illegal pact with Google's Eric Schmidt to artificially push their workers wages lower by agreeing not to recruit each other's employees, sharing wage scale information, and punishing violators.

> ...an estimated $9 billion effectively stolen...

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#129

In a company approaching a million employees, someone is doing something illegal/unethical every day. At that scale it doesn’t say anything about the culture as you are observing the outer ranges of a distribution.

That’s why you build systems that don’t allow for abuse whenever possible. And when it’s not possible, you create an audit trail. For example, I trust Google to make my individual search history difficult for employees to access, specific search results difficult to change, and confidential data difficult to access.

It makes sense in theory, but it’s also a short road away from mass employee surveillance when trying to keep watch over hundreds of thousands of employees to attempt to eliminate any potential outlier risks.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems incredibly racist. There could be low level employees of other ethnicities or countries of origin leaking information. That’s like saying ban all muslims from entering the US due to their ‘track record’

> That’s like saying ban all muslims from entering the US due to their ‘track record’ No, it absolutely is not. That is explicit race-based discrimination carried out by the government. Companies can, and do, decide not to give certain privileges to remote offices. It is not comparable to businesses refusing to staff certain positions or give certain responsibilities to remote offices. Furthermore, companies can requ…

That is explicit race-based discrimination carried out by the government

It is also racist to assert that Muslims are all of a single race. Like most religions there are followers of all ethnicities in all countries.

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