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Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

lore.kernel.org

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Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#431

Post by Natsu »

moosingin3space wrote: post #366
microcolonel wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is that the "Collaborating" sector is the wrong goal for the Linux kernel. Linus Torvalds is uniquely qualified to be concerned about matters concerning the kernel; if his interlocutors "win" too much on their side of the "win/win", every user loses. The public embarrassment of lazy and dishonest actors, especially those who are paid to collaborate, is an effective tool for maintaining order and stan…

> Linus Torvalds is uniquely qualified Gotta stop you right there. Hero worship should not be considered a good thing in our industry. The kernel subsystem maintainers, who actually review the code prior to getting it merged, are the ones with the real power and the necessary knowledge, and I'd argue they are more qualified to oversee the project's future than Torvalds.

Who will maintain the maintainers, though?

I think that's what he's good at. They know they'll get called out if they try any BS so they mostly don't. And sometimes Linus overdoes it, but Linux keeps getting better.

Anyone who can do better can make their own fork. So far, everyone still follows Linus.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#432

Post by moosingin3space »

Nasrudith wrote: post #16

A slowgoing development for him, still I sympathize and wish him the best while wondering ironically if personal issues aside what works best. It brings to mind fundamental organizational and management. Is it better to have a "rude" organization? Calling bullshit early and often instead of polite everything is fine stacks of lies since it would be impolite to point out having O(N!) code just can't work for anything…

Why do so many people on this forum seem to believe that being polite inherently implies lying to each other? I just want to understand this line of thinking.

My workplace is extremely polite to each other AND we don't lie to each other. I recently submitted a code review that was full of violations of the style guide, and nobody was rude nor dishonest.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#434

Post by loeg »

wolfgke wrote: post #154
tptacek wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently that just didn't occur to Chris Mason, Olof Johansson, Dan Williams, Greg Kroah-Hartman, Steven Rostedt, and Linus Torvalds.

> Apparently that just didn't occur to Chris Mason, Olof Johansson, Dan Williams, Greg Kroah-Hartman, Steven Rostedt, and Linus Torvalds. But to Rafael Avila de Espindola (LLVM): > https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LLVM-Raf... > http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2018-May/122922.htm... and many FreeBSD developers: > https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/is-the-community-become-f... > https://www.…

I am a FreeBSD developer. None of those links are or represent FreeBSD developers.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#435

Post by moosingin3space »

tomnipotent wrote: post #409
moosingin3space wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linus Torvalds is uniquely qualified Gotta stop you right there. Hero worship should not be considered a good thing in our industry. The kernel subsystem maintainers, who actually review the code prior to getting it merged, are the ones with the real power and the necessary knowledge, and I'd argue they are more qualified to oversee the project's future than Torvalds.

Yeah, just like regular employees are better qualified to run a company than the CEO. No one is more qualified than Linus to run this project and he's done a damn good job so far. Has he made mistakes? Sure. He's human.

I think that when a company reaches a certain size and stability level, as long as the CEO is competent and understands how to balance external and internal issues, the particular CEO doesn't matter that much. The real power over product direction comes from the PMs, VPs, etc. That's my argument -- Linus isn't uniquely qualified to run the Linux kernel project, since he's barely even involved in the direction of the project.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#436

Post by ekianjo »

jXCw1N0jtH3 wrote: post #429
dotancohen wrote: post #318

Newton was an asshole too. The whole "apple fell on his head" story came about because he was so mean to people. I won't say that most geniuses are inempathetic, but many are. Einstein wasn't, some say Gauss was. Beethoven was. Linus is. And we'll accept Linus's attitude for being an aversion to bullshit, just the quality that we need in a kernel maintainer. I'm glad to see that Linus finally realizes that he has a p…

Are we seriously putting Linus in the same category as Newton

Its an analogy, not a classification. If you want to go by that logic then no one can be in the same category as Newton as he was the ultimate genius who revoutioned maths and physics singlehandedly.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#437

Post by Natsu »

DannyBee wrote: post #288
serf wrote: post #142

I'm probably going to be alone in saying so, but I always enjoyed Linus and his attitude. (to me) it made him appear honest and dedicated to (his own) goals, and I always felt like that was respectable. (mostly) whenever he was proven technically wrong about how to do something he would concede to the technically better solution, and if he didn't do so he gave reasons for his conclusion. in other words : his technica…

"in other words : his technical brilliance, in my own opinion, was a far larger boon than the problems stemming from having to deal with his knife-like personality." One thing that is true in all successful organizations over time is that for any given person, no amount of genius will make up for being an asshole. It may take time, etc, but eventually, it ends up a significant net negative for the organization. The s…

> One thing that is true in all successful organizations over time is that for any given person, no amount of genius will make up for being an asshole. It may take time, etc, but eventually, it ends up a significant net negative for the organization.

I dunno, Steve Jobs sure managed for a long time. I think they quite often end up being a net negative for the people who work there, but I don't think it necessarily hurts the organization (though maybe it should sometimes).

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#439

Post by _8j50 »

If this was your typical org,Linus would be a lead developer and architect who is also the CTO.

It is easy for me to criticize his behavior(and I don't agree with his rants) but it is also a difficult thing to be a leader. It would have been better if he got rid of the cult that alienates anyone who criticizes him. He is a perfect fit for the role but he should also be more tolerant of people who criticize his communication style.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#440

Post by checkyoursudo »

merpnderp wrote: post #289
zemo wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ignoring your emotions and the emotions of others and seeing all of life as an exercise of pure rationalism is not emotional maturity, it's emotional cowardice.

Parent didn’t say ignore them. I’m pretty sure they meant not be an emotional child completely incapable of surviving the slings and arrows of life. Rule your emotions instead of being ruled by them.

Applies equally to archer and target, yes?
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