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Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

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Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#351

Linus Torvalds has created and led teams that maintain software that has made a better world and has improved my life. I am grateful that he has used his talents in this way. Can you imagine a world without Linux and without Git? I've read the supposedly scandalous emails that Torvalds has sent out, and I fail to see what the big deal is. Whoever convinced him that he needs to take time away from creating software to…

If you believe him to be a genius, then let me suggest you trust his judgement on this personal decision. I do.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#352
post #109
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People can be ruthless without being abusive. Everybody has a different conviction about what is abusive and what is not.

Very true. I remember when one of the kernel maintainers announced why she was going to stop contributing, one of the reasons listed was "Linus has advocated physical abuse of kernel maintainers." Looking at the email that was given as evidence though, Linus told one of the maintainers something like "You're over 6 feet tall, if the contributors won't give you their patches in time to be merged, say you'll smash them…

Here's a source for the actual quote:

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/linus...

The preferred pronoun of that person is currently "they":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sage_Sharp

You may want to edit your post accordingly.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#354

This is just sad. Linus was a driving force. His comments were often acerbic but always fair.

> His comments were often acerbic but always fair. No. https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/7/6/495

I love how none of the replies rose to the flame bait.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#355

The other huge news here, both for Linux and for numerous other communities trying to make similar changes: The most recent commit, right before the release, deletes Linux's "Code of Conflict" and replaces it with a real Code of Conduct, the Contributor Covenant. https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin... https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/process/code-of-condu... Quoting the commit message:…

> Contributor Covenant

The Contributor Covenant is horrific and harks back to the days of the Catholic Church(Or insert religion here) and morality and it's enforcement. It's a power trip that will end badly.

Morality should come from within, a learned and practiced behaviour, personally and within communities, not prescribed.

Manifesto's are purely implemented to bully people, they allow for the lynching and harm to others without remorse.

They also very quickly mutate once they take hold, they are evil at its worst.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#356

Take a look at the chart in https://twitter.com/ErynnBrook/status/1038893975279550465 Many people are so afraid of ending up in the bottom right (just giving in) that they head for the top left (zero-sum competition). This underlies some of the things people fear about codes of conduct; they're afraid that they're being pushed into that bottom right corner, rather than striving for better collaboration. Be direct. Be…

The problem here is that the "Collaborating" sector is the wrong goal for the Linux kernel. Linus Torvalds is uniquely qualified to be concerned about matters concerning the kernel; if his interlocutors "win" too much on their side of the "win/win", every user loses. The public embarrassment of lazy and dishonest actors, especially those who are paid to collaborate, is an effective tool for maintaining order and stan…

> if his interlocutors "win" too much on their side of the "win/win", every user loses.

You seem to be trying to find a way to turn this back into "win/lose".

Try another interpretation.

For instance, a patch might call attention to a problem, but it takes the wrong approach to solve it. Could we find a better solution to the problem?

Nobody is suggesting giving bad code or bad ideas a pass. Are you under the impression that it's impossible to reject a patch or give technical feedback without being brutal or toxic?

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More importantly, many thanks and congratulations to the folks who finally changed his mind.

I wonder what that discussion was like. It's not as if no one ever mentioned the subject to him before.

I have the impression that a combination of https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/764325/09702eb949176f55/ and some discussions on the Kernel Summit mailing list led to it, and almost certainly some private discussions as well.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#358
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some years ago I had to go to therapy for some issues of my own and back then I was afraid that it would fundamentally change who I am in some way. In retrospect that was a foolish thought. It made me wait longer to seek help than I should and in the end I was still like my old self (but better). I've been in therapy off and on most of my post-adolescent life. In the beginning, it felt like its only use was to have…

That's a really interesting perspective. I wonder if you/we could learn this without going to therapy... Maybe we should/could teach this in school?

From what I understood of OP's description of the process, it sounds a lot like the sort of awareness that's cultivated through long-term and consistent practice of meditation (implicitly or explicitly depending on the school of practice).

I noticed after a couple months of initially starting daily zazen practice (just 10-15 minutes every night), that I went from reacting in a way that was originally: event -> (usually 'extreme') reaction, to something more like: event -> stepping back/observing what would've originally been my reaction -> choosing to engage with it or not. After a year of practice, this new pattern of reacting basically became muscle memory and would happen _even when_ I sometimes wanted to strongly react to things (i.e. music/art/social situations with friends/etc ).

After about 4 or 5 years of consistent practice I caved into what I had even read was a common pitfall for most practitioners in thinking that I had "achieved" most of the "benefits" I could from meditation and just stopped practicing all together. It took about a year for most of these benefits to even start decaying, but after about that 2 year mark, my pattern of thought/reacting had almost entirely gone back to how it was before I had ever started practicing.

I'm thinking there has to be some happy medium where you have the ability to observe as well as engage, but I'm not sure what the original philosophies of the practice actually "advocate" for as I never really delved too deep into the literature on this.

I think this was actually one of the main reasons I stopped practicing, because I was wondering if my 'artistic side' was being 'dulled' by meditation. This is still a question I want answered and have been wondering if it may be worth doing a deeper dive into the literature/having a teacher guide me through the rest of this journey.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#359
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which kind of brings me to the other point - would Torvalds be Torvalds if he was treated before? Some years ago I had to go to therapy for some issues of my own and back then I was afraid that it would fundamentally change who I am in some way. In retrospect that was a foolish thought. It made me wait longer to seek help than I should and in the end I was still like my old self (but better).

> Some years ago I had to go to therapy for some issues of my own and back then I was afraid that it would fundamentally change who I am in some way. In retrospect that was a foolish thought. It made me wait longer to seek help than I should and in the end I was still like my old self (but better). I've been in therapy off and on most of my post-adolescent life. In the beginning, it felt like its only use was to have…

I did the same thing for years, but it drove my own therapist crackers. He insisted that I "do the work" only during the 1 hour a week session. I told him "Its how my head works, I think constantly, hell, I even talk in my mind in my sleep, what do you want me to do?! Stop thinking?" He didn't care for it, but oh well, it was my therapy, not his. And yes, I found out that "naming the drama" was intensely helpful when I was bent all out of shape about things. Congrats on your personal growth, etc.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#360

Take a look at the chart in https://twitter.com/ErynnBrook/status/1038893975279550465 Many people are so afraid of ending up in the bottom right (just giving in) that they head for the top left (zero-sum competition). This underlies some of the things people fear about codes of conduct; they're afraid that they're being pushed into that bottom right corner, rather than striving for better collaboration. Be direct. Be…

The problem here is that the "Collaborating" sector is the wrong goal for the Linux kernel. Linus Torvalds is uniquely qualified to be concerned about matters concerning the kernel; if his interlocutors "win" too much on their side of the "win/win", every user loses. The public embarrassment of lazy and dishonest actors, especially those who are paid to collaborate, is an effective tool for maintaining order and stan…

> The public embarrassment of lazy and dishonest actors, especially those who are paid to collaborate, is an effective tool for maintaining order and standards on behalf of the quality of the product, and provided nobody gets hurt permanently at the end of the day, it is easily justified.

It may be effective, but aren't there other equally effective alternatives? How are hard situations handled by maintainers of other operating systems/kernels like FreeBSD? Do they also need public embarrassment?

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