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Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

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Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#51

Post by zavi »

userbinator wrote: post #27
clubm8 wrote: post #14

> The practice, which violates company policy, is particularly pronounced in China, according to some of these people, because the number of sellers there is skyrocketing. As well, Amazon employees in China have relatively small salaries, which emboldens them to take risks. Sounds like Amazon is finding out the hard way that you need to pay for trust , not just skill. When you pay the absolute bare minimum to your em…

Don't forget that China is ultimately a far more collectivist society, and stuff like this happens all the time. The money just provides additional motivation; people's natural tendency is to share things.

Doing whatever it takes to get personal benefit even though it screws over others is the opposite of collectivism. As somedy who lived in China, Europe, and the US the notion of people in China being less selfish and less likely to cheat the system is just absurd.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#52

Post by reaperducer »

Kalium wrote: post #40
reaperducer wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but Costco only has a specific set of things that I'm looking for I think, as a society, we're going to have to get away from the notion that buying everything in one place is the ideal. We distribute computing, diversify investments, and decentralize everything from government offices to manufacturing. I think a certain amount of decentralization in shopping is OK if it means I don't have to deal with Amazon's c…

Is it perhaps possible that your priorities might not find a reflection in all hearts? Many people do not regard the time, energy, and resources that go into the logistics of managing many vendors to be good investments for them. This can be compared to distributed computing, somewhat distributed manufacturing, distributed government, and diversified financial portfolios. Each of the items you so correctly, wisely, a…

Many people do not regard the time, energy, and resources that go into the logistics of managing many vendors to be good investments for them

I don't disagree with this at all. I was one of those people for many years. But more and more I'm not that person anymore.

I don't think it's a good thing that one method (the all-centralized Amazon/Wal-Mart/Costco/Meijer hypermarket) be elevated to the status that it has, where it's seen as the epitome of retail evolution. It has been allowed to destroy other forms of retail because it uses euphemisms like "disrupt" instead of "destroy" and "value added" instead of "predatory." It pretends to be a tech company and not a retailer that's really really good and developing and implementing technology.

Just because the Amazon monster is wanted by a certain group of people doesn't mean that the other methods don't have value. That's why there's such a movement among hipsters (are they still a thing?) and others to shun the mass market in favor of more thoughtful methonds, online or otherwise.

I think Amazon is great, and I still use it on occasion, but we shouldn't deify a business model. As you noted, department stores were once the fashionable thing. One day Amazon's methods will also seem passé.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#53

Post by mc32 »

amelius wrote: post #13
mc32 wrote: post #5

This principally is for Amazon China and not the US where despite years of complaints Amazon has done little to visibly counter the same effects and issues. To wit: "In exchange for payments ranging from roughly $80 to more than $2,000, brokers for Amazon employees in Shenzhen are offering internal sales metrics and reviewers’ email addresses, as well as a service to delete negative reviews and restore banned Amazon…

Shouldn't there just be a law stating that doing such things as deleting negative reviews is fraud?

A problem is many reviews are for a lack of a better term, unrigorous. Some are outright wrong (unrelated to item), vengeful (maybe comes up short, competitor), and of course astroturfing.

So basically they are a signal, and bad actors act in bad faith, but there are also just people who don’t review properly or who don’t add context to their reviews.

A more thorough system would be a bit more expensive. Gor example allowing either subject or reviewer a right to appeal to an arbiter, etc.,

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#54

Post by jlarocco »

rifung wrote: post #49
jjeaff wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any reason to have that trust? Absent any evidence, I'm inclined to think that they do very little to protect my data. Had they any stringent controls in place, I feel like their PR or marketing would have communicated some of the specifics publicly.

We definitely have systems in place so that employees can not just randomly look at customer data, and when it is necessary it is always logged. Even if we need to debug customer issues we would need a good reason to look at data over just metadata. There are strict requirements for what can go in logs and dashboards also as you can imagine. > Absent any evidence, I'm inclined to think that they do very little to pro…

Are those logs available anywhere? Can users see when Google employees have looked at their data? Have those systems been audited by a third party to ensure they're working properly?

I'm sure most Google employees are good people, but your basically telling everybody to trust you that Google's doing it right, but not providing any evidence to back it up.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#55

Post by gesman »

jjeaff wrote: post #48
anoncoward111 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but Costco only has a specific set of things that I'm looking for, sometimes in too high quantities and at a price point that is not particularly amazing

I find most of their standard bulk items to be consistently cheaper. Or if not cheaper, of significantly better quality. Toilet paper, for example, is usually cheaper and when it isn't, the quality of what I might find on sale is hit or miss. But the biggest draw is the Kirkland label. I'm almost always pleased with the quality for the price. And it's essentially brand name products in different packaging. You can bu…

The only thing that makes my shy away from Kirkland brand - is their urge to put “Kirkland” label on good wines and expensive single malt scotches.

I mean - just keep certain things look as pure as you can, don’t plaster new label on top of everything.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#56

Post by 9712263 »

userbinator wrote: post #27
clubm8 wrote: post #14

> The practice, which violates company policy, is particularly pronounced in China, according to some of these people, because the number of sellers there is skyrocketing. As well, Amazon employees in China have relatively small salaries, which emboldens them to take risks. Sounds like Amazon is finding out the hard way that you need to pay for trust , not just skill. When you pay the absolute bare minimum to your em…

Don't forget that China is ultimately a far more collectivist society, and stuff like this happens all the time. The money just provides additional motivation; people's natural tendency is to share things.

That's not true. Selling data for their own profit is completely individualist.

So-called collectivist is just another way to say government could seize anyone's personal property without permission and compensation for 'greater good', which translates to government officials's pocket.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#57

Post by mcny »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #38
fcuck_actuarial wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I had in mind by Ego was "flattery", so in a positive sense. In retrospect, ego without M is an empty, impotent argument.

Or ego in the form of bait and switch offers of getting to have leadership responsibility or opportunity to heavily influence decision making about technical choices. Hype a position up like someone has creative autonomy to lead, because it strokes their ego, then later just shrug.

You could argue that the US military uses ego very successfully. The money isn't good all things considered but it is reliable/stable. So, I think it is a mix of M and E.

Now imagine if we make universal health care and universal college education free of cost and available everywhere to everyone regardless of income. I bet military recruiters' job will become a lot harder.

This makes me wonder: why can't we use ego in civil service? I'm thinking police, firefighters, and transit workers (from the bottom all the way to top management). Because after all, if we want to reduce cost (and I hope we all do) then what's better than to reduce pay?

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#58

Post by NeedMoreTea »

reaperducer wrote: post #34
anoncoward111 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but Costco only has a specific set of things that I'm looking for, sometimes in too high quantities and at a price point that is not particularly amazing

Yes but Costco only has a specific set of things that I'm looking for I think, as a society, we're going to have to get away from the notion that buying everything in one place is the ideal. We distribute computing, diversify investments, and decentralize everything from government offices to manufacturing. I think a certain amount of decentralization in shopping is OK if it means I don't have to deal with Amazon's c…

I fully agree with your sentiment, but...

The trouble with taking shopping back to brick and mortar is that half the best stores, and especially the eclectic specialists that had the interesting and quality things, have closed down over the last 10 years. Leaving many areas with little more than basics and discount chains. In good part thanks to Amazon and the rise of online. Five or more years after it closed I still haven't been able to fully replace the local hardware store, offline or on.

There's an awful lot more charity shops because the landlords struggle to rent all the retail units, far more betting shops everywhere, but very few new shops opening to fill the gaps.

Meanwhile Amazon isn't a patch on what it was before the rise of marketplace.

Backing out of everything at Amazon could prove difficult.

Re: Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes

#60

Post by dang »

fcuck_actuarial wrote: post #31
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coercion and Ego are almost never used because they aren't reliable and are fear based. Money and Ideology are positive incentives, Coercion and Ego are generally painful incentives.

What I had in mind by Ego was "flattery", so in a positive sense. In retrospect, ego without M is an empty, impotent argument.

Please don't make a trollish username on HN. It's distracting, since the account basically trolls every thread it posts to.

We can rename the account for you if you email a better username to hn@ycombinator.com, but I've banned this account in the meantime.

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