It seems to me that AI is more plant than animal, and the specific biological response mechanisms that plants use have explanatory power toward understanding and communicating about AI in a more productive way than the popular conception of GAI as sentient.
Watch Plants Light Up When They Get Attacked
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Re: Watch Plants Light Up When They Get Attacked
#12Some people love to use this information as a fallacious argument of futility against veganism, i.e. that suffering cannot be avoided because "plants suffer too!". But this misses the point. Plants can respond to stimuli, but it doesn't mean that they feel pain, suffer and have a consciousness and emotions like animals do. > Plants have no eyes, no ears, no mouth and no hands. They do not have a brain or a nervous sy…
Plants struggle to survive and reproduce as animals do, with different strategies adapted to their circumstances. Pain is just a specific mechanism toward that end, as is sentience. Why should we privilege those mechanisms when deciding which organisms are worthy of our concern? It's as if birds decided that flight is the key feature important to determining interspecies concern. Chauvinism based on anthropoid characteristics is still chauvinism.
Re: Watch Plants Light Up When They Get Attacked
#13So the signal passes from the attacked leave to other leaves, what do the other leaves do with this information though? What can they defend against?
Re: Watch Plants Light Up When They Get Attacked
#14So the signal passes from the attacked leave to other leaves, what do the other leaves do with this information though? What can they defend against?
They can produce noxious chemicals or retrieve resources from threatened parts among other responses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_defense_against_herbivor...
Re: Watch Plants Light Up When They Get Attacked
#15Some people love to use this information as a fallacious argument of futility against veganism, i.e. that suffering cannot be avoided because "plants suffer too!". But this misses the point. Plants can respond to stimuli, but it doesn't mean that they feel pain, suffer and have a consciousness and emotions like animals do. > Plants have no eyes, no ears, no mouth and no hands. They do not have a brain or a nervous sy…
There are some people who don't feel pain (congenital insensitivity to pain). If there was a way to raise animals such that they lack the ability to feel pain and emotions, would it be acceptable to vegans to then consume animals?
Re: Watch Plants Light Up When They Get Attacked
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
Speaking as a vegan: The reason I am vegan is for utilitarian reasons. Neuroscientists agree that there is firm evidence that all animals (NOT PLANTS) are sentient to varying degrees. I believe that in the future it will be possible to quantify exactly how sentient each species is (e.g. a dog is 1/4 of a person or a cow is 1/5 of a person). Furthermore, through technology such as EEG, fMRI, and intravenous monitoring…
I’m also a vegan. There wasn’t any singular reason that led me to this resolution, but many factors. For instance, I probably wouldn’t be alive if it weren’t for modern medicines use of animals. But that’s more of a survival issue than killing an animal because it’s protein is preferable to a plants. To an extent, I realized how little enjoyment I got out of eating meat compared to the suffering animals face. I read…
> and it’s awful that so much of human activity results in life’s death and extinction
What you mean is nature not just humans. Life death cycle is natural thing.
World is full of beauty, but it is also full of suffering and pain, large portion of it not having to do anything with humans. Animals can starve in nature, get mutilated etc.
Nature is both sides of the coin, not just the pretty one.
As for what you eat, it’s very hard to scientifically prove what’s healthier for you. There are way too many outside factors that influence that. A lot of plants you buy in a shop are treated with chemicals in unhealthy way. Apple, carrots, tomatoes are all treated to ripe when they need to cos they are usually harvested before fully ripe.
And third thing, just cos you don’t need something doesn’t mean humans won’t do it, that’s, once again, in our nature.
Re: Watch Plants Light Up When They Get Attacked
#17Some people love to use this information as a fallacious argument of futility against veganism, i.e. that suffering cannot be avoided because "plants suffer too!". But this misses the point. Plants can respond to stimuli, but it doesn't mean that they feel pain, suffer and have a consciousness and emotions like animals do. > Plants have no eyes, no ears, no mouth and no hands. They do not have a brain or a nervous sy…
In my view, what’s futile about it is the fact that for many veganism has to do with moral choice against animal suffering but gets conflated with “living healthy”.
Skin of an apple that you buy in standard shop is anything but healthy due to the amount of chemicals applied to it. Even the home grown plants can be treated in a way that is unhealthy.
And thirdly, things like avocado plantations are anything but environment friendly.
Re: Watch Plants Light Up When They Get Attacked
#18Some people love to use this information as a fallacious argument of futility against veganism, i.e. that suffering cannot be avoided because "plants suffer too!". But this misses the point. Plants can respond to stimuli, but it doesn't mean that they feel pain, suffer and have a consciousness and emotions like animals do. > Plants have no eyes, no ears, no mouth and no hands. They do not have a brain or a nervous sy…
There are some people who don't feel pain (congenital insensitivity to pain). If there was a way to raise animals such that they lack the ability to feel pain and emotions, would it be acceptable to vegans to then consume animals?
Lab grown meat will hopefully become a thing in the next decade.
Re: Watch Plants Light Up When They Get Attacked
#19Some people love to use this information as a fallacious argument of futility against veganism, i.e. that suffering cannot be avoided because "plants suffer too!". But this misses the point. Plants can respond to stimuli, but it doesn't mean that they feel pain, suffer and have a consciousness and emotions like animals do. > Plants have no eyes, no ears, no mouth and no hands. They do not have a brain or a nervous sy…
Ok. What about: sea sponges, starfish, jellyfish, and octopi? (If you’re drawing a seemingly arbitrary line at “has brain / nervous system => able to feel suffering”)
Which signalling molecules would qualify?
Re: Watch Plants Light Up When They Get Attacked
#20Some people love to use this information as a fallacious argument of futility against veganism, i.e. that suffering cannot be avoided because "plants suffer too!". But this misses the point. Plants can respond to stimuli, but it doesn't mean that they feel pain, suffer and have a consciousness and emotions like animals do. > Plants have no eyes, no ears, no mouth and no hands. They do not have a brain or a nervous sy…
"That again, they respond to stimuli but don't feel pain like an animal." I don't feel this is a valid argument. We only really know how pain feels to us, but we can guess it also applies to other humans, animals, etc. That we cannot imagine how it feels to respond to negative stimuli as a plant should not invalidate the possibility that it is unpleasant.
A robot can be designed to respond to stimuli. For instance, an advanced robotic vacuum cleaner moves away when it hits an object that was not supposed to be there, or move away from a source of heat or from water. In what sense are these responses different from the response of a plant or an insect?