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Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#81

And you ask? Pick Google and you're set for the rest of your life as "Googler" and as "Ex Googler", if you decide to start your own startup, it's easier than ever and VCs will throw money at you. Source: ex googler

I think 'ex google' has lost most of it's weight. Even if it was just used by any of the > __30,000__ engineers, it would be diluted.

Adding to that mix is non-technical people trumpeting ex-google/insert some other massive company on their profiles/pitches; it just doesn't mean that much.

Oh, you handled frontline customer service/ad sales/some other mundane role for Google? So what?

Getting in to Google was once a sign of something. I don't see it as a high signal filter anymore.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sample size of one: my company tends to ding candidates from Google if they have any whiff of the kind of status- or compensation-driven thinking displayed in this comment section. Can sometimes indicate limited independent thinking and low concern for others. Definitely can close doors.

What's compensation driven thinking ? There's a difference between only caring about money vs asking for what you deem fair. Startups always abuse the naivete of new grads and low ball them by saying they are working for a grander cause. That is BS too.

Small town personal tax agencies aren't financially competitive with Deloitte either. Doesn't make them abusive if Deloitte tier accountants choose to work for them.

Every industry has small low income employers and big titans with deep pockets. The big take most of the high quality talent by offering high salaries, and the small compete for the scraps with niche offerings.

Only in software does being the former seem to be some moral crime. Like if you're not as good as a place to work at as google you're meant to put "we're fairly shit. B- tier candidates at best please" on your hiring page.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#84
So after 4 years in Google's case you'd have 800K extra (most likely more depending on how you invest) plus Google on your resume. The 6% will get diluted into ? If you are so confident in your ability to pick winners you are better than top 1% of VCs.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#85
post #58

1. 6% of zero is zero. 2. 4 years is a lot of time to spend at a company for a high probability of making 6% of zero. 3. If you're an employee at a startup, you're in the wrong job. You're much better off being a founder. 4. Equity is a way to be paid less and to be fired in the first year if you haven't vested anything. 5. Who are you going to sell your equity shares to? It's not necessarily a free market in the sta…

This is a surprisingly jaded response that flies in the face of my experiences at multiple startups.

I concur with assuming equity will be 0. Dilution is real and almost all startups fold. Counting on equity is unwise and dangerous.

As for the rest of your commentary, I’d say startups are great because you get a better ability to shape your experience. I’ve now been employee: 21, 7, and 1 at respective startups. While I’ve seen poor management, I’ve not seen evil management.

As for opportunities, they are what you make them to be. There is always room for leadership at small startups, for instance. If that is a path the OP cares about, it is an intruiging option.

All that said, at 3x the salary google is hard to say no to even over a 1-2 year span.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#86

And you ask? Pick Google and you're set for the rest of your life as "Googler" and as "Ex Googler", if you decide to start your own startup, it's easier than ever and VCs will throw money at you. Source: ex googler

I think 'ex google' has lost most of it's weight. Even if it was just used by any of the > __30,000__ engineers, it would be diluted. Adding to that mix is non-technical people trumpeting ex-google/insert some other massive company on their profiles/pitches; it just doesn't mean that much. Oh, you handled frontline customer service/ad sales/some other mundane role for Google? So what? Getting in to Google was once a…

I don’t think the world has reached your POV. Maybe it will. But hiring managers can weed through the crap. And for now hiring exgooglers is like the old saying that nobody gets fired for buying IBM. It’s a strong signal of capability because presumably google wouldn’t have employed you long if you weren’t hitting their objectives regardless of your role.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#87
Unless you're coming on as part of the management team --- really, even then, I guess --- 6% seems like a bit of a bad sign. That's a lot. Like, that's the kind of grant you get when nobody is sure how things will turn out, not when something is locked in.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#88
IMHO, disregarding compensation, Identify and learn everything possible about who will be your boss/manager/mentor.

This will significantly impact on your ability to succeed and on your happiness.

(Most of) People don’t leave companies, they leave their bosses/managers.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#89
post #84

So after 4 years in Google's case you'd have 800K extra (most likely more depending on how you invest) plus Google on your resume. The 6% will get diluted into ? If you are so confident in your ability to pick winners you are better than top 1% of VCs.

Whoa that’s insane. Mind sharing how you can get to 800k in 4 years. I just hit my first year at Google. I’m likely getting my second Strongly Exceeds in perf but no idea what my stock refresh will be. Assuming you’d have to do some smart investing to get that high so quickly.

Edit: Think I misunderstood. My regular salary will be about that much total in 4 years.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#90
I run a start-up so I'm biased. I also used to work in academia, and went straight from that to a start-up because I loathe the idea of working for a big engineering firm (I'm an electrical/electronic/photonic engineer). So keep that in mind when reading.

Some comments here point out that only large organisations have the infrastructure required to really pull off certain fields, e.g. ML. Agreed, but surely this is field/interest dependent. I think most fields can be supported well by a start-up environment.

Consider the productivity. Some of the best engineering and commercial achievements were done on a tight budget - see the history of ARM, Microsoft, etc. I can vouch for how demanding, educating, and satisfying it is to work in a closely knit engineering team towards a common goal, with everyone around you pulling their weight and having their talents 100% utilised. There is no room for slackers in a small organisation - you will not have any useless colleagues, no wasted time, no pointless tasks. Your skills will expand in every direction - and not just in technical fields (although you will probably need to dabble in a range of these).

Consider the share options. 6% is a lot. Have they raised any money? Find out. Imagine they've raised £0.5m for 20% (a small angel round). That values your 6% at £150,000 today. If they raise a Series A of £2m for another 20% in a few years' time, your shares will be simultaneously diluted by the newly-issued shares but also stepped up in value. Now your options are worth £0.48m. By the time you exercise your options, you'll probably be a millionaire. This isn't trivial, and it's a typical conservative trajectory. Of course, you need to consider the 6% offer as an investor would - do you think the business is going to succeed? If not, go to Google. If you think it will, why turn down that transient opportunity?

Consider the transferability of the skills you will develop. If you work for a large org you will focus on one field, probably. You may become renowned for that. If you want to work in a start-up later, you need to find the one that suits, and they better be able to afford your specialist skills. If you work for a start-up now, you will develop broad skills and a huge amount of experience solving multiple challenges. Your engineering confidence will be immense and this will be recognised by employers. A very capable generalist who can be trusted to learn whatever is needed to solve tomorrow's challenge is every engineering employer's dream.

Do you want to be an anonymous cog in a corporate machine, or do you want to be a genuinely valued member of a team that is producing something new and valuable, that is creating its own culture, its own processes, its own market?

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