Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#271

Post by Gracana » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 10:51 PM UTC

firic wrote: post #265

Gracana wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find these things kind of funny. How important are these rules if god is so easily tricked?

God is not tricked. There is no restriction against cooking on Shabbat. There are restrictions against eg. making a fire and building. If you can somehow cook without doing any of those things, then there is nothing wrong with it.

I was talking about this: "when touching a button the effect is delayed by a few seconds so you're not technically getting any result from touching the button while still getting the effect from touching the button."

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#272

Post by sonnyblarney » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 10:57 PM UTC

devdas wrote: post #237

sonnyblarney wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this position to be woefully lacking in cultural perspective. What is it about we Engineers that we want to put everything in such mechanical terms, like 'handling admin' and 'congestion'? There are considerable advantages in having most people off on the same time, not the least of bit the inherent deeper relaxation of knowing the rest of the world is off. It's completely another experience when everyone else…

> It's completely another experience when everyone else is down, than when 'just you' are down. It's stressful and not relaxing.

You definitely have a right to your feeling, but I don't know a single person who reacts this way. I really do feel that in generally, overwhelmingly, most people relax better when everything is 'off'.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#273

Post by compsciphd » Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 2:19 AM UTC

Gracana wrote: post #271

firic wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God is not tricked. There is no restriction against cooking on Shabbat. There are restrictions against eg. making a fire and building. If you can somehow cook without doing any of those things, then there is nothing wrong with it.

I was talking about this: "when touching a button the effect is delayed by a few seconds so you're not technically getting any result from touching the button while still getting the effect from touching the button."

The concept is called Grama and its not universally accepted for these ovens and the like. For the reason you stated, if something is going to happen, just we are not 100% sure exactly when, then some don't consider it grama.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grama_(halacha)

Grama really only helps you for rabbinically prohibited actions. (i.e. man made law, man made loophole). Not law that is considered biblical in nature.

Most people who wonder about all the "loopholes" don't realize that its talking about what jews considered rabbinic law.

to make an analogy, congress can't legislate a loophole around the constitution, they can legislate loopholes around their own laws.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#274

Post by wonderbear » Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 4:07 AM UTC

dragonsky wrote: post #195

palidanx wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Seventh-day Adventist (we observe the Sabbath by going to church on Saturday -- but that can lead to an entirely another discussion), I personally view it as a time to disconnect from work, and focus on God, relationships, and the nature around us. In terms of hobbies, this is interesting a point of debate with many Adventists. Some are more 'conservative' where they won't do anything close to resembling work or…

I wonder who does the work of cooking meals an careing for children during the religious day off?

In my experience, whomever would normally do it. Many of us would meal prep ahead of time and leave the dishes for later. I often fail at this level of preparation and just make really simple meals.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#275

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 6:01 AM UTC

Gracana wrote: post #271

firic wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God is not tricked. There is no restriction against cooking on Shabbat. There are restrictions against eg. making a fire and building. If you can somehow cook without doing any of those things, then there is nothing wrong with it.

I was talking about this: "when touching a button the effect is delayed by a few seconds so you're not technically getting any result from touching the button while still getting the effect from touching the button."

[deleted]

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#276

Post by hi41 » Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 9:43 AM UTC

I have been doing production the whole weekend with just few hours of sleep. I like the idea of this article. The pressure from work is intense and would love to observe the Sabbath just so that I can spend some time with the family.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#277

Post by blattimwind » Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 10:45 AM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #264

blattimwind wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If not, what do the Germans think of this? I am a certified German and most people very much enjoy the six day week (de-facto five day week if you're in an office or unionized), though some people inexplicably want to do "sunday shopping". Sunday having a protected status is actually part of the Grundgesetz (~constitution).

I mean, I just posted a poll that says a majority would prefer businesses get to decide, so perhaps not as much agreement with you as you think?

You did not. You posted a poll asking "Hey, would you like to go shopping on sundays?", which for the huge majority of people is a different question from "Hey, would you like to work on sundays?".

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#278

Post by cswilly » Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 11:33 AM UTC

This is a possible idea for well-paid engineers. But many minimum wage people trying to get ahead appreciate the time and a half extra pay they get for working Sundays. Why would think we have a right to stop them from getting ahead by banning work on Sunday.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#279

Post by antpls » Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 3:15 PM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #170

TulliusCicero wrote: post #18

Kind of have this in Germany, where many businesses are prohibited from being open on Sunday. For example, grocery stores can't be open unless they're at a central train station or airport. In practice, to me it just feels really annoying and limiting. Means I basically have to plan any larger shopping trips for Saturday, even if that doesn't work well for my schedule. I get that they want to make sure workers have e…

"In practice, to me it just feels really annoying and limiting." As a Canadian who's spent time in Germany and France, I found it 'annoying' for about 3 months and then I got used to it. When I came back to Canada ... I found the noise and business to be crazy. I've come to the conclusion that the 'annoyance' of limitation is better than the hustle and bustle of noise and business on Sunday and I prefer the Franco/Ge…

In Paris, some stores started to open on Sunday. I find it useful, and I now prefer when stores are open on Sunday.

You can buy anything on Internet on Sunday, electricity and water are available on Sunday, telecommunications are available on Sunday, our cars work on Sunday. If we use all those (for those of us who don't observe religious laws), it makes sense to keep going the entire economy 24h/7, IMHO. Automation may help to have 100% uptime availability on more services, but it is definitely better when things are available on Sundays too.

Not having to plan for a day to go shopping is a cognitive burden freed from our mind. However I agree we should use automation to achieve that level of reliability, rather than make people work on Sunday.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#280

Post by kaitai » Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 3:50 PM UTC

kaybe wrote: post #235

billfruit wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most 7day employers like retailers having rotating staff rosters, so that the employees will be doing 4-5 day weeks only. In fact perhaps having a mandatory closed holiday may mean that many people wouldn't have the jobs they have now.

It's not like the population will buy more things if you open one more day though (not sure how online shopping plays into this). So your revenue will just be spread out over more time, and your costs will be higher since you have to keep the shop open one more day.

This is not just speculation. I live in a US state that recently allowed liquor stores to be open on Sundays. Biggest opponent of the law change? Liquor store owners. No increase in revenue, increase in employee and operating costs -- no win for them. That pressure to open if the neighbor shop is open means almost every liquor store is now open on Sundays.