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Is the Second Farm Crisis Upon Us?

civileats.com

41–50 of 159 posts

Re: Is the Second Farm Crisis Upon Us?

#41
post #4

The article only mentions land value once, and in my opinion this is a huge oversight. There's articles going back to 2010[0] that speculate that a land bubble had been going for a few years, and when that's coupled with quantitative easing it means that people had to borrow increasing amounts of money to buy an equivalent amount of land. Combine that with decreasing crop prices and additional debt load that was take…

An underappreciated contributor to the earlier farmland price bubble is Michael Burry of the Big Short fame. After he made his name, one of his first public recommendations was to buy farmland. A bubble ensued. Whether Burry was reading the fundamentals and simply publicizing them I don't know, but many people followed his lead.

Re: Is the Second Farm Crisis Upon Us?

#42
“We’re heading to a place where we don’t have farmers; we just have food production.”

This.

I don't know what the solution to this is. I have a small farm, and raise meat sheep. But it's very much a hobby. The problem is, though, that almost all of the other farmers in my area, the ones I meet at the feed store or the livestock auction, they're also hobby farmers. There is exactly one “real” farmer (meaning that it's his full time job) in my area. He raises specialty row crops and runs an agricultural co-op, the kind where you pay a certain amount a month and get a box of fresh vegetables every week. But hobby farmers can't feed the country. We can't even feed ourselves, if it comes to that.

The problem is that these vegetables, which don't have to be shipped any distance and don't have the overhead of a grocery store, are still more expensive than the equivalent groceries in the local Safeway. The economies of scale in agriculture have become so strong that there's no way to compete on price any other way. And people understandably don't want to double their grocery bills just to buy local.

I grew up on a 300 acre cattle farm. Fifty years ago a family could make a living on a 300 acre, well situated east coast farm. Not any more. You'd have trouble just paying for gas, groceries, and medical care. Forget paying down a mortgage or god forbid buying new farm equipment. The only way to even stay on the farm, is to either walk into a situation where everything - land, house, barn, equipment, everything - is already paid for. Or to get a full time job in town and farm on the weekends. That's what my dad did. And it's what my sister and brother-in-law do now.

We have a situation where we've harnessed economies of scale so much that we have only a small handful of corporations producing our food. They mainly want to grow exactly the same small number of crops, to keep supply chains simple. We've wrung all of the redundancy, both financial and biodiversity, out of the system.

So what happens if someone figures out how to weaponize that against us? What happens if Chinese investors own half the farm land and we go to war with China? Or what happens if we encounter this generation's version of potato blight on corn or wheat? This is not just a human tragedy. It's a huge national security issue, and it looks like nobody is paying attention.

Re: Is the Second Farm Crisis Upon Us?

#43
post #26

Other than smaller farms suffering, what would be the dangers of farm consolidation? I was looking for a section in the article that talks about it, but couldn't really find any.

For some reason we need small (relatively inefficient) family farms as opposed to large corporate farms. Not too sure why other than purely political reasons, farm states vote first in the primarys for this specific reason.

Re: Is the Second Farm Crisis Upon Us?

#44
post #8

Are farmers not able to use financial instruments to hedge their costs? Simply borrowing money with no hedge seems VERY scary to me. I guess that's just the game?

Interestingly enough the futures contract was invented by agricultural commodities traders to hedge against inclement weather.

But consider that many farmers only have a high school education, and are managing operations with millions in assets/debt, hundreds of thousands in revenue per year, and razor thin margins. A lot can go wrong.

Many understand the benefits and dangers of financing, but many don't.

Re: Is the Second Farm Crisis Upon Us?

#45
post #2

"A gallon of milk costs a farmer approximately $1.90 to produce, but in the last year, farmers have been receiving as little as $1.35 per gallon." If it cost more to make it than they are getting, why are milk prices not higher?

A gallon in the stores costs $4-5

Even in San Francisco a gallon of milk at Trader Joe's is under $3/gallon.

Re: Is the Second Farm Crisis Upon Us?

#46
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they? What's up with all the famine then? The empire relied on an obscene amount of grain shipments from North Africa and Egypt (plus sicily to begin with). Roman food distribution was anything but efficient or fair

There is an argument that all famine is political, and has been for several centuries. It seems crazy on the surface, but it's hard to find counterexamples.

All of the worst famines are political, because the combination of political and natural factors push the death tolls beyond what nature itself is capable of.

Re: Is the Second Farm Crisis Upon Us?

#47
post #2

"A gallon of milk costs a farmer approximately $1.90 to produce, but in the last year, farmers have been receiving as little as $1.35 per gallon." If it cost more to make it than they are getting, why are milk prices not higher?

Subsidies distorting the market largely. Farmers continue to use rBST to over produce milk, and the fed pays to destroy some of it to avoid collapsing the market. The situation would sort itself out better if we’d left it the hell alone, but now the pain that correcting this situation will cause is significant

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Re: Is the Second Farm Crisis Upon Us?

#50

“We’re heading to a place where we don’t have farmers; we just have food production.” This. I don't know what the solution to this is. I have a small farm, and raise meat sheep. But it's very much a hobby. The problem is, though, that almost all of the other farmers in my area, the ones I meet at the feed store or the livestock auction, they're also hobby farmers. There is exactly one “real” farmer (meaning that it's…

This is interesting, thank you for sharing. Is the main problem simply the reduced price of output (due to competition with large scale industrial agriculture), rather than other factors (such as potential increased costs of inputs, degraded soil quality, access to water).

> We've wrung all of the redundancy, both financial and biodiversity, out of the system.

I have similar concerns, not just about farming but other parts of a globalised economy. It is far more efficient to have everyone very specialised, with long-range dependencies. It is far less resilient to have one huge coupled economic system than a number of smaller, approximately independent systems. [+] Similarly, it's more efficient (in the short run, or the lucky case) to not leave any contingency or insurance against rare events.

> What happens if Chinese investors own half the farm land and we go to war with China?

I wouldn't worry about this one -- unless foreign investors have a means to enforce physical security of their ownership claims, there's always the option of the government with control over the physical assets to expropriate them, either by simply changing the law, or declaring special war time powers. For example, re: WW1

> the attack on enemy aliens and their property involved diverse institutions (governments, parliaments, the judiciary, armies and administrative bureaucracies) and actors (local businessmen and entrepreneurs, lobbies and interests groups but also ordinary people animated by patriotism or who saw in the attack on enemy property an opportunity to improve their own economic status).

https://encyclopedia.1914-1918-online.net/article/property_r...

edit: [+] to call myself out for claiming things based solely on intuition, it's not at all obvious that many smaller independent economies are necessarily always more resilient than a single arbitrarily structured large economy -- it might depend on the structure of dependencies, and how much choice there is for alternatives if subsystems fail, and how much slack is in the system, and dynamic factors. To argue in the other direction, smaller, isolated economies also tend to be at more risk of failure if any of their larger participants fails (see also: common wisdom about risk of buying real estate in small single company or single industry towns and so on...), so there's probably more robustness for those economies where the impact of failure of any single participant upon the overall system is roughly negligible. but i think there is usually a pretty strong conflict between efficiency redundancy.

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