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How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

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Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#31
post #4

Boy, HN loves articles about solitude and loneliness. And it's a distinction that often crops up in discussion here. I think there's a balance here, and cultivating some amount of loneliness -- not solitude -- is also good. For example, two people in my life are "Alice" and "Bob", who have been married for decades. Alice once told me that one of Bob's great weaknesses was that he'd been alone for too long in his teen…

> weeks of overseas travel where nobody knows him and he doesn't talk much are great fun for him

This sounds like me. I once went to a week long conference where I realized at the end that during the entire week I could count on 2 hands the number of words I had spoken to other people during that time. I don't have the desire or need to speak with other people. I'm happy with my own thoughts. Or as Jane Austen wrote, "Her own thoughts and reflections were habitually her best companions."

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#32
>We can’t simply be. We feel compelled to always do.

>We can’t allow ourselves a moment of self-inflicted boredom.

>We’re scared of where this boredom will take us.

>Of what we will hear in our heads if we lapse into true silence: hopes, dreams, shame, embarrassment… Fear of failure.

>We want to be entertained, constantly. The alternative — introspection — intimidates us.

I don't know about this one. I'm sure it's different for everyone, but boredom to me comes from "being entertained". My inspiration to "do" rather than to "be" comes from introspection. I'm rarely satisfied unless I'm learning about something or contributing to something-- and usually I like to do this alone, because I know what I like to learn and contribute and only I can do that best. Everything goes wrong when I seek out entertainment, so I usually don't.

These lines are kind of patronizing, or feel that way. Not everyone seeks out online psuedo-connection because they're afraid of being alone; some of us, most of us, have an idea of our direction in life, know what we're doing and why.

Maybe the article is a message to those who actually feel lonely. I'm not sure. But I disagree with a few sentiments.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#33
post #4

Boy, HN loves articles about solitude and loneliness. And it's a distinction that often crops up in discussion here. I think there's a balance here, and cultivating some amount of loneliness -- not solitude -- is also good. For example, two people in my life are "Alice" and "Bob", who have been married for decades. Alice once told me that one of Bob's great weaknesses was that he'd been alone for too long in his teen…

I think HN loves these articles because HN's users skew introverted. Like most of my friends, they love sharing articles like this or the "care and feeding of your introvert" which seems to make the rounds of my social media every few years.

If you think things like "Engaging with other people is messy and hard to control." - this is an introverted viewpoint. The assumption you are making is that engaging with people is draining, you need something to push you to do it or... you just won't.

I'm in a weird space - I'm an extrovert, but I functioned as an Introvert for most of my life. I'm transgender, so as a child and a young adult, I put constant and tremendous energy into conforming to my assigned at birth gender. It made every social interaction, especially with strangers, feel like a drain. I would much rather be at home playing video games where I could play characters I identified with or where gender was not a factor at all. It's part of what drew me to engineering to begin with; computers neither knew nor cared about your gender.

I'm not like that at all now. I go to large gatherings where I know nobody and walk out with new friends. I go to clubs, I date heavily, I dress flashy, I'm constantly interacting with new people and even an awkward mess of an interaction is a good story to tell. Even the video games I play are mostly so I can talk to other people about them. Engaging with other people doesn't feel messy at all to me.

What makes this really relevant is - growing up introverted, my choice of career (as an engineer) and historically friends has left me surrounded by introverts. Who totally misunderstand our motivations sometimes.

For instance, becoming a manager - going to meetings and interacting with people all day? That sounds like the dream. But when I say that it catches people off guard; doesn't every engineer hate those parts of management? Isn't the only upside of being a manager the ability to make decisions?

Or when recruiters are pitching jobs to me, all I really care about is the people, the position, how I'll interact with my coworkers day to day. I can learn a new tech stack. I can and have moved anywhere from front end to devops. But the reality is that if I don't like the people, if I don't have a social engagement to the work - ideally with a lot of pairing, mentoring, and other opportunities for social interaction - I'll lose motivation. Remote only is my worst nightmare, and "we split the work up and go off to our desks for a few days" drives me nuts. But the social environment is almost never pitched.

But Engineering is full of introverts, so it is a context where, for once, the extroverts are the rare and misunderstood breed :P.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#34
post #4

Boy, HN loves articles about solitude and loneliness. And it's a distinction that often crops up in discussion here. I think there's a balance here, and cultivating some amount of loneliness -- not solitude -- is also good. For example, two people in my life are "Alice" and "Bob", who have been married for decades. Alice once told me that one of Bob's great weaknesses was that he'd been alone for too long in his teen…

> weeks of overseas travel where nobody knows him and he doesn't talk much are great fun for him This sounds like me. I once went to a week long conference where I realized at the end that during the entire week I could count on 2 hands the number of words I had spoken to other people during that time. I don't have the desire or need to speak with other people. I'm happy with my own thoughts. Or as Jane Austen wrote,…

Jane Austen is another person.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#35
post #4

Boy, HN loves articles about solitude and loneliness. And it's a distinction that often crops up in discussion here. I think there's a balance here, and cultivating some amount of loneliness -- not solitude -- is also good. For example, two people in my life are "Alice" and "Bob", who have been married for decades. Alice once told me that one of Bob's great weaknesses was that he'd been alone for too long in his teen…

> weeks of overseas travel where nobody knows him and he doesn't talk much are great fun for him This sounds like me. I once went to a week long conference where I realized at the end that during the entire week I could count on 2 hands the number of words I had spoken to other people during that time. I don't have the desire or need to speak with other people. I'm happy with my own thoughts. Or as Jane Austen wrote,…

>>I don't have the desire or need to speak with other people. I'm happy with my own thoughts.

I used to believe this about myself too. Then one day I came to the profound realization that I do in fact have both the need and the desire to talk to others. I had just been suppressing it by using my own thoughts as a distraction.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#36

I am very glad to know there are many people out there like myself. This article touched on many good points. I prefer to be alone about 70% of the time. I NEVER feel lonely, in fact just the opposite. I feel inspired in thought and connected to the massive pulsating power of our universe and everything in it. To be around people actually pulls me down into the superficiality of EGO which is not where I prefer to spe…

> To be around people actually pulls me down into the superficiality of EGO which is not where I prefer to spend my time.

This is very true. Although I am not yet content to sit on a bench doing nothing (I'd prefer to read), solitude is a wonderful hiatus from the physical attachments that are sometimes needed in life. Making friends can often be a clashing of egos which eventually dissolves until you can see each other in a deeper way-- but before that, in a room full of people at a conference for example, all is just masks and shields and feints, the social game, which just comes down to beating around the bush. It's hard not to play the game, but the more comfortable I am in solitude, the more comfortable I am in subverting the game. I'm more honest now, willing to show people I am vulnerable without manipulation, that I am confident without arrogance, and I've formed deeper connections with others as a result. When you are authentic around others in the same way you are with yourself in solitude, the "right people" just come. I have found a lot of like-minded people this way, and having that enhances that inspiration and connection to "the massive pulsating power of our universe ".

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#37
post #4

Boy, HN loves articles about solitude and loneliness. And it's a distinction that often crops up in discussion here. I think there's a balance here, and cultivating some amount of loneliness -- not solitude -- is also good. For example, two people in my life are "Alice" and "Bob", who have been married for decades. Alice once told me that one of Bob's great weaknesses was that he'd been alone for too long in his teen…

I think HN loves these articles because HN's users skew introverted. Like most of my friends, they love sharing articles like this or the "care and feeding of your introvert" which seems to make the rounds of my social media every few years. If you think things like "Engaging with other people is messy and hard to control." - this is an introverted viewpoint. The assumption you are making is that engaging with people…

> Isn't the only upside of being a manager the ability to make decisions?

For me, the upside is in coaching and growing talent, or finding the right chemistry to enable work otherwise not possible.

[edit: I’m strongly introverted, but love this part of management]

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#38
post #11

One of the interesting points in the article is: “embrace the boredom”. That’s what I tell my 7-yo repeatedly. Boredom makes you more creative.

Just curious. How does your 7-year-old respond?

He’s not too convinced at first. But most of the time he ends up with something fun. Which I use as an example the next time he says That he’s bored. As a single child he’s already used to spend some time alone. So it’s relatively rare that we hear “I’m bored”.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think HN loves these articles because HN's users skew introverted. Like most of my friends, they love sharing articles like this or the "care and feeding of your introvert" which seems to make the rounds of my social media every few years. If you think things like "Engaging with other people is messy and hard to control." - this is an introverted viewpoint. The assumption you are making is that engaging with people…

> Isn't the only upside of being a manager the ability to make decisions? For me, the upside is in coaching and growing talent, or finding the right chemistry to enable work otherwise not possible. [edit: I’m strongly introverted, but love this part of management]

> For me, the upside is in coaching and growing talent, or finding the right chemistry to enable work otherwise not possible.

Well then that makes two of us. Watching the junior people grow is among my favorite things. I have seriously considered teaching as a profession though economic incentives are what they are.

It's very refreshing to see such a viewpoint on chemistry. I've never even seen the chemistry be considered in any staffing or team decision (at least openly), or a manager put effort into fixing a broken relationship. It feels like interpersonal chemistry is almost entirely ignored in favor of skill set or basic resource allocation.

For example, I had a coworker I simply could not get along with (and the feeling was mutual). We were on a two person team so all of my work went through that coworker. I told my boss (repeatedly, over the course of most of a year) that I would rather work with anyone else in the company, and I needed to do so at least some because I was getting burned out. His solution was to make that coworker (on our two person team) my boss, since he didn't have time to manage the relationship.

It made sense from a pure resource point of view; the relationship was showing signs of needing managing and not getting it, so by promoting a new manager, that would happen. There were two of us in a somewhat isolated area, and nobody else really had the skill set for that area, so technically we were the best match.

But it totally ignored the people chemistry - the fact that the two of us would argue for hours over the most ridiculous things (quite visibly), and both feared the other's reaction to any work we did. I don't question my coworker's competence, we were simply on opposite ends of ideological extremes on too many things for that to ever have worked. It would have been far better to have me switch roles, split my time, train someone on the skills needed, just about anything else. The actual solution, naturally, felt like a slap to the face.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#40
post #11

One of the interesting points in the article is: “embrace the boredom”. That’s what I tell my 7-yo repeatedly. Boredom makes you more creative.

>“embrace the boredom”. That’s what I tell my 7-yo repeatedly. Boredom makes you more creative.

Being creative is the opposite of embracing the boredom because you're fighting it by being creative.

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