How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude • Hacker News Board

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#21

Post by otakucode » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 3:09 PM UTC

majos wrote: post #4

Boy, HN loves articles about solitude and loneliness. And it's a distinction that often crops up in discussion here. I think there's a balance here, and cultivating some amount of loneliness -- not solitude -- is also good. For example, two people in my life are "Alice" and "Bob", who have been married for decades. Alice once told me that one of Bob's great weaknesses was that he'd been alone for too long in his teen…

As with all things when humans are involved, it is definitely complicated. A person who is alone and comfortable with that might be that way because they have a healthy philosophical outlook and derive their self valuation from objective places rather than through reflections of what others think or believe about themselves.... or they could be comfortable because they have retreated in fear from the evaluations of others, and out of a desire to opt out of the battle for social status not because they have any sort of realization about social status but because they are afraid of failing.

Humans are tremendously varied, and in any group that is comfortable with solitude you will probably end up with representatives from many different sources of motivation for that. For everyone, though, I think there is definite benefit in either seeking to know one's self better or in seeking to understand the outlook other people have. By default we pretty much assume that everyone is mostly like us and this shortsightedness can lead to some pretty nasty evaluations of others who act in ways incongruous with the evaluators own worldview.

The article mentions that we invest a great deal in teaching children how to be social, but fail to prepare them for being alone. I would argue that we don't do a very good job with teaching kids to be social either, but we do certainly invest a great deal more on that side of things. It's one of those sorts of things that would be very difficult to change. If the parent or other teacher is not comfortable with solitude themselves, the only way to equip a child with a better capacity for it would require the teacher to actively teach things that they personally do not feel to be true. Very many parents, it seems to me anyway, are not emotionally mature enough to tackle this. A child which is comfortable with and who seeks solitude is literally worrisome for most parents today. That's the "loner", the "quiet one" that all of the lists of 'warning signs' for everything from suicide to school shootings are topped with.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#22

Post by lihaciudaniel » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 3:12 PM UTC

0n0n0m0uz wrote: post #16

I am very glad to know there are many people out there like myself. This article touched on many good points. I prefer to be alone about 70% of the time. I NEVER feel lonely, in fact just the opposite. I feel inspired in thought and connected to the massive pulsating power of our universe and everything in it. To be around people actually pulls me down into the superficiality of EGO which is not where I prefer to spe…

Also social media, avoiding the constant notifications.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#23

Post by petra » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 3:31 PM UTC

0n0n0m0uz wrote: post #16

I am very glad to know there are many people out there like myself. This article touched on many good points. I prefer to be alone about 70% of the time. I NEVER feel lonely, in fact just the opposite. I feel inspired in thought and connected to the massive pulsating power of our universe and everything in it. To be around people actually pulls me down into the superficiality of EGO which is not where I prefer to spe…

Talking about a method to improve that ability, that's interesting. And certainly powerful, in today's world.

I wonder , what about longer periods of time ? How long can you be alone, without something to do and enjoy it ? And what's the context ?

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#24

Post by fredsir » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 3:32 PM UTC

robotkdick wrote: post #20

yawz wrote: post #11

One of the interesting points in the article is: “embrace the boredom”. That’s what I tell my 7-yo repeatedly. Boredom makes you more creative.

Just curious. How does your 7-year-old respond?

“...but that’s boring!!!”

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#25

Post by Lkjhmnbv » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 3:39 PM UTC

otakucode wrote: post #21

majos wrote: post #4

Boy, HN loves articles about solitude and loneliness. And it's a distinction that often crops up in discussion here. I think there's a balance here, and cultivating some amount of loneliness -- not solitude -- is also good. For example, two people in my life are "Alice" and "Bob", who have been married for decades. Alice once told me that one of Bob's great weaknesses was that he'd been alone for too long in his teen…

As with all things when humans are involved, it is definitely complicated. A person who is alone and comfortable with that might be that way because they have a healthy philosophical outlook and derive their self valuation from objective places rather than through reflections of what others think or believe about themselves.... or they could be comfortable because they have retreated in fear from the evaluations of o…

The problem is individuals aren't objective. They're biased. You need other people to tell you when you're wrong. At least in part.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#26

Post by monster_group » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 3:50 PM UTC

FTA - "The interesting thing about the 52 Hertz whale isn’t its loneliness. After all, it can’t be lonely; loneliness is a man-made condition."

I find this rather presumptuous. Whales are highly intelligent animals. To allege that they can't be lonely erodes author's credibility.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#27

Post by cgriswald » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 3:56 PM UTC

otakucode wrote: post #21

majos wrote: post #4

Boy, HN loves articles about solitude and loneliness. And it's a distinction that often crops up in discussion here. I think there's a balance here, and cultivating some amount of loneliness -- not solitude -- is also good. For example, two people in my life are "Alice" and "Bob", who have been married for decades. Alice once told me that one of Bob's great weaknesses was that he'd been alone for too long in his teen…

As with all things when humans are involved, it is definitely complicated. A person who is alone and comfortable with that might be that way because they have a healthy philosophical outlook and derive their self valuation from objective places rather than through reflections of what others think or believe about themselves.... or they could be comfortable because they have retreated in fear from the evaluations of o…

> A child which is comfortable with and who seeks solitude is literally worrisome for most parents today.

That is probably because success in society requires socialization. A child eschewing social interaction for solitude is missing the opportunity to fail socially when stakes are relatively low (even if they feel world-ending to the child). I don't want my child to go play with friends because I'm concerned about suicide or school shootings. I want my child to go out and play because I'm concerned about career networks, personal safety, and a lasting support network outside of me.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#28

Post by newscracker » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 3:57 PM UTC

There’s one more state — a new kind of “alone connectedness” that most people seem to prefer, which has been fostered and magnified by the Internet and social platforms (I include HN as one of those).

Without even communicating with others, even if there are known people in physical proximity, many people feel connected just by being “lurkers” in their favorite corners of the Internet. This is not like passive watching of (live) TV, but is a bit more of a controlled and conscious exercise. So connectedness (as an oppposite of loneliness) is not just about actively interacting with others, but being in a place where relatable people exist. The same applies to outings too. Just being anywhere where other people seem to be is enough to feel it.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#29

Post by cgriswald » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 4:01 PM UTC

monster_group wrote: post #26

FTA - "The interesting thing about the 52 Hertz whale isn’t its loneliness. After all, it can’t be lonely; loneliness is a man-made condition." I find this rather presumptuous. Whales are highly intelligent animals. To allege that they can't be lonely erodes author's credibility.

I'm not even sure what the author means. The experience of loneliness I have isn't some artificial construct created by other humans, even if my loneliness is due a lack of interaction with other humans. And lots of social animals can experience loneliness.

Re: How to be alone: the difference between loneliness and solitude

#30

Post by wool_gather » Sat, Sep 15, 2018, 4:17 PM UTC

newscracker wrote: post #28

There’s one more state — a new kind of “alone connectedness” that most people seem to prefer, which has been fostered and magnified by the Internet and social platforms (I include HN as one of those). Without even communicating with others, even if there are known people in physical proximity, many people feel connected just by being “lurkers” in their favorite corners of the Internet. This is not like passive watchi…

Yeah, that's a very interesting observation. I'm trying to think of pre-internet means of doing that... You can't really observe without being observed in the absence of a broadcast mechanism. You're just the weird person in the back who shows up but doesn't talk to anyone.

Might actually be a genuinely novel mode of interaction (if we can really call it "interaction").