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Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

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Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#361

Post by interfixus »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #359
interfixus wrote: post #123

So nice to see the sensible and pragmatic Dutch going without the silly, soulgutting bicycle helmets. Not to mention the usual orgy of blinkenlights and assorted fluorescent garments.

I'm curious, why do you consider helmets to be "silly" and "soulgutting"? The blinking lights are essential in order to be seen in twilight and dark conditions. Hi-viz also aids in this.

First, and quite anecdotally, I have never once in some fifty-odd years of cycling been even remotely close to a situation of "yeah, I could really have done with a helmet there". Fifty-odd of course does indicate that I'm of a generation less accustomed to safety symbolism in all aspects of life, I'll grant you that. Second, I enjoy my bike and use it more or less daily. I wouldn't - neither use nor enjoy - if I were forced into donning some strange kind of hard hat that I didn't wish to don. I like my choices to be my own. The helmet still is a choice where I live, but I clearly see that changing within not too many years. And anyone I see wearing a helmet is casting a vote in that direction. They are - and should be, of course - free to do so, but please don't preach the other way at me. Third: I have worked as a professional driver of both trucks and buses. My very clear experience is that the most dangerous cyclists are often among the ones decked out in full safety regalia. It's as if some people feel that having paid their dues and performed the ritual, they are thereby exempt from risk. Strange phenomenon, but all too real.

Yes, I also detest airbags. But wear my seatbelt religiously.

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#362

Post by KozmoNau7 »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #247

In San Francisco one major barrier to cycling is theft. You basically cannot leave a bike for > 1hr. This additional burden means many who would bike (such as myself) no longer consider it an option. I previously biked upto 45minutes each way for work. > A 2013 report by the city’s legislative analyst estimated that 4,085 bikes worth $4.6 million were stolen in 2012, with the downtown and South of Market neighborhood…

In Copenhagen, the bike theft rate is around 28 per 1000 inhabitants every year. Yet a huge amount of people still bike every day.

I have fixed rear wheel lock fixed to the frame, and a chain lock that I carry around the seat post, and use to lock the frame to a bike rack or other fixed object. Most people do the same.

The biked that get stolen are the very fancy bikes and bikes that are left unlocked or poorly locked. Ride an ordinary bike and remember to lock it, and you'll be fine. Personalize your bike with stickers and such, to make it much less desireable. And get insurance.

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#363

Post by village-idiot »

jbob2000 wrote: post #345
village-idiot wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I laugh at the idea that cyclists are privileged people when your entire argument is "I want to sit in my $30k steel box, not have to prepare for changes in weather, not interact with other people, and not work". The idea that someone on a $400 bike who read a weather report and works to commute is "privileged" is ludicrous.

The privilege is around ability, not cost. No less than half of my coworkers are constantly complaining about how broken their bodies are, you expect these people to just hop on a bike and go?

Well, if they had done that earlier their bodies probably wouldn’t be so broken. Sitting still is bad for you.

I just find your hatred for cyclists utterly bizarre. Did a cyclist murder a family member and you need revenge, or what?

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#364

Post by RightMillennial »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #352
RightMillennial wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you lived in Chicago during the winter? It gets quite cold and windy. I couldn't imagine willingly commuting there on bike even if adequate infrastructure existed.

If it's windy then you aren't going to be cold.

If this is some pun or joke, I don't get it. I assure you a place can be both cold and windy simultaneously, and this is not exclusive to Chicago.

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#365

Post by village-idiot »

brightball wrote: post #82
liveoneggs wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

locating them in random suburban office parks is much worse, except for those in that particular 'burb.

Is it? Because the traffic in the suburbs is usually nowhere near the level of traffic in the city. The commute time tends to be relative to the traffic density more than the distance. I drive to the same location, 15 miles away every day. Depending on the time of day and the traffic, the drive will take 15 minutes or 45 minutes. The commute problem is forcing all of those cars down those same roads at the same time.…

It's bad because some commuters will have to cross the city center to get to the suburban park, and there's no feasibly way to provide commuter oriented public transit.

Compare that to the offices in downtown Chicago for example, where a large percentage of the workers arrive at work via Metra (medium distance commuter trains) and el (inner city public transit).

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#366

Post by jbob2000 »

village-idiot wrote: post #363
jbob2000 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The privilege is around ability, not cost. No less than half of my coworkers are constantly complaining about how broken their bodies are, you expect these people to just hop on a bike and go?

Well, if they had done that earlier their bodies probably wouldn’t be so broken. Sitting still is bad for you. I just find your hatred for cyclists utterly bizarre. Did a cyclist murder a family member and you need revenge, or what?

I absolutely do not hate cyclists, I am one myself. When I lived in the city, I commuted in to work on a bike. I have lived that life and know what it’s about.

What I disagree with is the idea that we can build a society around cycling. I was lucky to be able to live close enough to work and be abled enough to do the ride 5 days a week. And I was lucky that, on days with bad weather, I could work from home because of my job as a software developer.

As I started to look outside of my own life, I saw that not so many people were lucky. Actually, most people weren’t this lucky. How would I ride to work as a construction worker, with all my equipment and rotating job locations? How could I do this as a nurse, where I would be on my feet all day working odd hours? The more and more I considered all the ways people participate in society, the more I realized that the very narrow constraints of cycling just don’t work for most people.

So sure, build the cycling lanes and bike racks, I’m not asking you to rip those up. There are many people who can cycle and we should accommodate them. But that’s it - Just accommodate them. Don’t try to uproot the core structure of our way of life. You’ll want the roadways when you get old and injured can’t ride any more.

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#367

Post by jbob2000 »

CorvusCrypto wrote: post #102
jbob2000 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm genuinely curious: do you wear glasses? How do you keep them from getting fogged up/iced over when riding in the winter? Don't waste your time. Pro-cyclists are the most biased and privileged people I've ever met. Just get on your bike, it's so easy! forgets that some people have bad knees . All you need is some goggles when it rains! forgets that people wear glasses . Just wait for the snow to be cleared! forg…

This isn't really a fair statement to make. Sure some people will have struggles with using a bike all winter and it may not be possible for them, but it doesn't invalidate the ideas or arguments as a whole. To assume all people for the idea are just biased and privileged based on cherry picked negative situations is just not fair. If you can't cycle then you can't cycle. Just because a few can't do something doesnt…

The idea alone isn’t invalid in theory, but in practice. Add up all the people who can’t ride bikes for whatever reasons and you see that we’re exactly where we’re at now; some people ride, most don’t. You seem to think that it’s a small number of people who can’t ride, but I think it’s the opposite.

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#368

Post by hhmc »

dhnsmakala wrote: post #342
hhmc wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure the consequences might be different, but you still have to trust the other road participants just the same.

Please think a little. If I am concerned about my safety and I'm in a car, then I only have to trust drivers not to do egregious things like head on collision at high speeds. If I'm on a bike, I have to trust the teenage driver not to get distracted by a text message and swerve a little bit. In a car at city speeds this would be a minor accident, on a bike it could be life threatening.

Thank you for encouraging me to think, since I was wilfully choosing not to before.

> I only have to trust drivers not to do egregious things like head on collision at high speeds.

You have wildly underestimated how small of a mistake can end your life in even low-speed traffic. It's fine, a lot of drivers have an unearned sense of resilience, so you're not unique.

You're also intentionally ignoring the alternate routes cyclists can take, segregated cycle paths, the EV+ lifespan a cyclist has.

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#369

Post by KozmoNau7 »

interfixus wrote: post #361
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, why do you consider helmets to be "silly" and "soulgutting"? The blinking lights are essential in order to be seen in twilight and dark conditions. Hi-viz also aids in this.

First, and quite anecdotally, I have never once in some fifty-odd years of cycling been even remotely close to a situation of "yeah, I could really have done with a helmet there". Fifty-odd of course does indicate that I'm of a generation less accustomed to safety symbolism in all aspects of life, I'll grant you that. Second, I enjoy my bike and use it more or less daily. I wouldn't - neither use nor enjoy - if I wer…

In ~25 years of cycling, I've been in two situations where a helmet most likely saved me from severe concussion and probably a fractured skull. Neither accident was solely my fault. A bicycle helmet is not "safety symbolism", it has verifiable benefits in reducing the severity of head injuries. Your phrasing and choice of words seem to suggest that people should just "harden up" and "things were better in the old days", which is a highly problematic position to take, one which smacks of rose-tinted glasses.

By your reasoning, motorcycle helmets and protective clothing is also pointless. After all, I've had no accidents in ~10 years of motorcycling, so the safety gear must be completely pointless? Nevertheless, I would never get on a motorcycle without proper gear, because I've seen the damage that can happen. I've also seen the head trauma that can happen in a bicycle crash, so I wear a helmet.

I'm not sure why you think people wearing helmets are casting votes for mandatory helmet laws. I'm certainly not a proponent of such laws, but I am very much a proponent of wearing a helmet, in order to reduce the severity of injuries. I am certain the vast majority of helmet wearers agree with me, we put on the helmet by choice, not because we want to force others to do the same.

The most dangerous cyclists are the ones constantly on their phones and/or with loud music in their ears. Same as car/truck drivers. The hardcore lycra-clad cyclists go rather fast, but they're also highly aware of their surroundings. Your experience from the limited visibility of a truck driver's seat is leading you to false conclusions.

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#370

Post by dhnsmakala »

hhmc wrote: post #368
dhnsmakala wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please think a little. If I am concerned about my safety and I'm in a car, then I only have to trust drivers not to do egregious things like head on collision at high speeds. If I'm on a bike, I have to trust the teenage driver not to get distracted by a text message and swerve a little bit. In a car at city speeds this would be a minor accident, on a bike it could be life threatening.

Thank you for encouraging me to think, since I was wilfully choosing not to before. > I only have to trust drivers not to do egregious things like head on collision at high speeds. You have wildly underestimated how small of a mistake can end your life in even low-speed traffic. It's fine, a lot of drivers have an unearned sense of resilience, so you're not unique. You're also intentionally ignoring the alternate rou…

Again, please think a little.

'bicyclists face a higher risk of crash related injury and deaths than occupants in motor vehicles'

https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/bicycle/index.html

I can't believe you need proof for such a simple statement. The best you can do is 'trust me, low speed accident very dangerous'

Sure, some places are more bike friendly than others. But even here in the bay area ciclists are mostly jostling with cars (outside of SF).

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