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Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

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Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#121

Post by menacingly »

throwaway715875 wrote: post #86
gavman wrote: post #35

As an Orthodox Jew who observes the Sabbath every week, while sometimes finishing up work and preparations beforehand can be stressful at times, there's no feeling like turning off all phones/laptops/etc Friday evening and leaving it all behind. There's a supreme serenity that comes with the knowledge of "I can't do anything about it, so there's no point in worrying". As soon as Sabbath starts I'm totally focused on…

I'm Jewish but not religious anymore, and I know a lot of people that keep Shabbat that talk like this. Frankly, I don't buy it. If we have a problem with detaching from technology, then, stopping all usage of it only one day a week is maybe 90% as unhealthy. It would be like saying you have a healthy relationship with smoking because you don't smoke at all for one day a week, but after that you can chain smoke 24/6.…

Simplifying this to a dichotomy basically only functions inside of arguments. It's like saying "if laughter is so great, why not do it constantly?"

It's possible that both being connected and disconnected are happy, functional states for humans, and finding the right balance is the topic under discussion.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#122

Post by jVinc »

danschumann wrote: post #47

Plenty of religious things are not superstitious, but based on real psychological needs.. people who dismiss them as pure fantasies are missing the point. New Testament is full of such things helpful for psychological maintenance and emotional well-being, if you can get the metaphors. It's why the stories and practice of them have survived so long (because the practicioners survived more frequently and/or saw the val…

Well of cause. People don't dismiss "religious things" like singing, gathering together or confiding in others. They dismiss the religious part of those things. And the assumption that wearing spaghetti strainers or turning off your phone on the weekends will somehow bring you closer to the giant spaghetti monster in the sky.

> It's why the stories and practice of them have survived so long (because the practitioners survived more frequently and/or saw the value in repeating/practicing them).

Yes. That's a hypothesis... another hypothesis that has a lot more backing in history is that the practitioners literally killed people who disagreed with them. Religions didn't survive because of minor health benefits or great mental advantages of regular praying. They survived because they where the mafia of yesterday who administered justice without regards for morals or popular opinion because they claimed to act in the name of gods.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#123

Post by danjc »

krapp wrote: post #109
danjc wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The freedom of Christianity is that Jesus has done the "good things" on your behalf so that your standing before God is not dependent on your own good works. The corollary to this is that you want to do good because of your love for Jesus.

>The freedom of Christianity is that Jesus has done the "good things" on your behalf so that your standing before God is not dependent on your own good works. I can understand and agree with the moral and humanist teachings of Christianity, but the premise of "salvation through faith" always seemed fishy to me, pun only slightly intended. No matter how much good a person does, or how much they try to lead a moral lif…

Hard to know how to respond succinctly here. With respect to our sin deserving eternal judgment consider the majesty of the person being sinned against. For example if I stab my friend in the back to get ahead in business I might face litigation worst case. However if I attempt to overthrow the government I'll be charged with treason and might even face execution depending on where I live. Both scenarios are forms of disloyalty but society understands that the severity of the punishment should be according to the "majesty" of the person wronged.

With regards your second last paragraph, I'd recommend reading Romans, particularly chapter 8. You are right that those who believe in Jesus get off "scot free" but this is only because atonement is substitutionary. A Christian's sin is imputed to Jesus while Jesus' righteousness is imputed to him/her.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#124

Post by danjc »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #110
danjc wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He says the Sabbath was created for man not man for the Sabbath. His reaction was to the legalism of the day.

He didn't call it legalism, he called it everything from hypocrisy (heaping up burdens on people) to simply evil (neglecting elderly parent for the sake of ritual).

I meant legalism specifically in the context of Mark 2 but I agree with you.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#125

Post by dsr_ »

bdcravens wrote: post #112
gavman wrote: post #35

As an Orthodox Jew who observes the Sabbath every week, while sometimes finishing up work and preparations beforehand can be stressful at times, there's no feeling like turning off all phones/laptops/etc Friday evening and leaving it all behind. There's a supreme serenity that comes with the knowledge of "I can't do anything about it, so there's no point in worrying". As soon as Sabbath starts I'm totally focused on…

My wife is Messianic Jewish. I presume they are more liberal in their approach than most Jewish sects, but as they all seem to use their phones during Sabbath (even posting videos from services to Facebook)

On the one hand, I don't really want to criticize other people's religion. On the other hand, by all general criteria, your wife is at least as much a Christian as a Mormon or a Jehovah's Witness is, and very few non-adherent Jews would describe her as an observant Jew.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism for people who are interested in a summary.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#126

Post by bonniemuffin »

Kye wrote: post #58

This article is aimed at religious people. It's fine. Good writers know their audience and write to them. This would make a fine sermon or lecture. But you can see how the context collapse has led to lots of snark here. My advice: read it with the understanding that it's not for you (or me), and that it offers a perspective you might not have gotten if it targeted a more general audience. Seneca might have been writi…

I disagree-- I think this article was speaking right to me, an atheist. Sometimes I schedule a weekend day on my calendar labeled as "do-nothing day", in which I give myself the luxury of staying in pajamas all day if I feel like it, not leaving the house if I feel like it, and basically not doing any goal-oriented activities (e.g. nothing you'd put on a to-do list). I could really get into the idea of keeping a secular sabbath.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#127

Post by dingaling »

aklemm wrote: post #57

If this doesn't work out, can we at least keep one day a year? Please don't shop on Thanksgiving!

I'm not sure I can go completely offline every [Saturday|Sunday] but this has inspired me to at least book one day a month off technology.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#128

Post by Kinnard »

I bet this audience would get a lot out of a teleological exposition of sabbath observance. The article doesn't touch on this. . . . Shabbat as a technology for transforming the world over time and the origins of the laws of shabbat as a program running (executed by people) to build the microcosmos into the macrocosmos, culminating in a world where we don't have to work anymore. But that might be too emic.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#129

Post by schoen »

Itaxpica wrote: post #107
spiritcat wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well ya the prohibition is about creating fire, why wouldn't you step on the elevator if it's just going to be going up and down anyway?

This is a common misconception, but the prohibition against using electronics on Shabbat has nothing to do with fire; it has to do with completing a circuit since "completing a construction" is one of the 39 specifically banned activities

It seems that both justifications have been used.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activities_prohibited_on_Shabb...

"Many poskim ground their prohibition of operating electrical appliances in this melakha."

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#130

Post by tomjakubowski »

13of40 wrote: post #94
Animats wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. A whole collection of hardware has been developed to weasel out of the religious restrictions. There are "shabbos elevators", which not only stop on every floor (no button pushing), but bypass regenerative braking and dump the energy into a big resistor so as not to "do work". There's the "kosher light switch."[1] This looks like a regular light switch, and performs the same function. But it works by sensing the…

"shabbos elevators" There was one of those at a hotel I stayed at by the Dead Sea, but in general their elevator situation was different than the ones I've seen in the US and Europe: I encountered multiple elevators in Israel where you selected a floor at a central panel outside the elevator, then the elevator itself would arrive and take you to the floor, rather than having the buttons on the inside. I wasn't able t…

This is called "destination dispatch" and, far as I know, has nothing to do with Judaism. The elevators in the buildings for IBM Watson in NYC and Munich both use destination dispatch. I should also note that it doesn't have anything to do with Watson either, they just came to mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destination_dispatch

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