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Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

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Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#91

Post by sandworm101 »

DanAndersen wrote: post #16

The article raises good points about the need for formal societal taboos against constant work. The ideal (often violated, though) in our modern society of the "40-hour week" as a reasonable amount is one of them. Having regular times for contemplation and separation from the bustle of the world is important. The gig economy has dangers in it. There's a liberating aspect in that people "can choose their own hours," b…

>> this practice where the conveniences of life are still indulged in by having an outsider labor for you.

Exactly. My sunday starts at 0300, when I relieve someone who worked the graveyard shift from saturday. I'll sit at a desk in a darkened room all day just in case a phone rings. I'll probably be on HN commenting on some article, but I have to be at that desk. Cops have to be at work too. All the nurses and care providers, airline pilots and air traffic people, all the hotel operators ... the only reason anyone can safely stay home on a sunday is because legions of other people do not. I'm fine with the concept of a day off, but we shouldn't attach religious meaning to something not available to everyone.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#92

Post by jfk13 »

cdoxsey wrote: post #21

> what our society would need to look like for the Sabbath to be possible. Keeping sabbath is possible, though sometimes difficult. Coming from a fairly conservative presbyterian background, the hardest part for me was on-call responsibilities. There are exemptions for emergencies (for doctors, police, fire fighters, etc), but in some software jobs "emergencies" happen nearly every day and it didn't seem like that wa…

> in some software jobs "emergencies" happen nearly every day

Perhaps in some cases we (managers? developers? customers?) ought to reconsider what constitutes an "emergency".

Or perhaps the software concerned is particularly poor.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#93

Post by allenofthehills »

Kye wrote: post #58

This article is aimed at religious people. It's fine. Good writers know their audience and write to them. This would make a fine sermon or lecture. But you can see how the context collapse has led to lots of snark here. My advice: read it with the understanding that it's not for you (or me), and that it offers a perspective you might not have gotten if it targeted a more general audience. Seneca might have been writi…

> This article is aimed at religious people.

I didn't get that at all. I think the author was trying to explain that the concept of the Sabbath (ie take a day of rest) has important psychological and societal value, irrespective of its religious origins.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#94

Post by 13of40 »

Animats wrote: post #65
ido wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In effect I'd say that it is an attitude more concerned with the spirit and less with the letter of the law (so, for instance, I don't think turning on the light is an issue, and putting money on the table for someone to take isn't actually adhering to the prohibition on commerce). That's something that generally rubs me the wrong way about a lot of things with orthodox jewish practices (especially the ultra orthodox…

Yes. A whole collection of hardware has been developed to weasel out of the religious restrictions. There are "shabbos elevators", which not only stop on every floor (no button pushing), but bypass regenerative braking and dump the energy into a big resistor so as not to "do work". There's the "kosher light switch."[1] This looks like a regular light switch, and performs the same function. But it works by sensing the…

"shabbos elevators"

There was one of those at a hotel I stayed at by the Dead Sea, but in general their elevator situation was different than the ones I've seen in the US and Europe: I encountered multiple elevators in Israel where you selected a floor at a central panel outside the elevator, then the elevator itself would arrive and take you to the floor, rather than having the buttons on the inside. I wasn't able to figure out (nor can I find online) whether that design was related to not doing something on the sabbath.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#96

Post by protomyth »

danschumann wrote: post #47

Plenty of religious things are not superstitious, but based on real psychological needs.. people who dismiss them as pure fantasies are missing the point. New Testament is full of such things helpful for psychological maintenance and emotional well-being, if you can get the metaphors. It's why the stories and practice of them have survived so long (because the practicioners survived more frequently and/or saw the val…

Some of the things in the Bible are also physical health items. Of course, modern technology and health practices have rendered much of the directives obsolete unless you get stuck in a really primitive part of the world.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#97

Post by carbocation »

throwaway715875 wrote: post #86
gavman wrote: post #35

As an Orthodox Jew who observes the Sabbath every week, while sometimes finishing up work and preparations beforehand can be stressful at times, there's no feeling like turning off all phones/laptops/etc Friday evening and leaving it all behind. There's a supreme serenity that comes with the knowledge of "I can't do anything about it, so there's no point in worrying". As soon as Sabbath starts I'm totally focused on…

I'm Jewish but not religious anymore, and I know a lot of people that keep Shabbat that talk like this. Frankly, I don't buy it. If we have a problem with detaching from technology, then, stopping all usage of it only one day a week is maybe 90% as unhealthy. It would be like saying you have a healthy relationship with smoking because you don't smoke at all for one day a week, but after that you can chain smoke 24/6.…

Unlike smoking, which all humans can survive without, society hasn't yet been configured in a way where we can survive and improve our lot without work.

So, even if your point -- that disconnecting one day a week is still 90% as bad as disconnecting all the time -- were to be true, it's also moot because that's not an option.

If your point is conditioned upon technology, rather than work, I would ask you to determine how to disentangle the two. It's not like working into the weekend is a new phenomenon (since, as we know, the concept of a weekend was only recently won).

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#99

Post by sudosteph »

I feel like observance of the Sabbath is actually one place where Christianity diverges[1] pretty clearly from many stricter Jewish traditions. Jesus pretty much straight up tells his disciples that Sabbath is for people to relax and that the weird laws around it were meaningless. But in general I'd say the author's sentiment is definitely on target. Guaranteed time off makes sense from many perspectives, morally and ethically. It's actually the one thing I kind of give credit to Chick-fil-a for. They'd make a killing if they opened on Sundays, but the owner genuinely believes he's morally obligated to give everyone Sunday off, so every single one closes on Sundays.

[1] quote below for reference:

At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.” He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’[a] you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” - Matthew 12

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#100

Post by taurath »

throwaway715875 wrote: post #86
gavman wrote: post #35

As an Orthodox Jew who observes the Sabbath every week, while sometimes finishing up work and preparations beforehand can be stressful at times, there's no feeling like turning off all phones/laptops/etc Friday evening and leaving it all behind. There's a supreme serenity that comes with the knowledge of "I can't do anything about it, so there's no point in worrying". As soon as Sabbath starts I'm totally focused on…

I'm Jewish but not religious anymore, and I know a lot of people that keep Shabbat that talk like this. Frankly, I don't buy it. If we have a problem with detaching from technology, then, stopping all usage of it only one day a week is maybe 90% as unhealthy. It would be like saying you have a healthy relationship with smoking because you don't smoke at all for one day a week, but after that you can chain smoke 24/6.…

> If we have a problem with detaching from technology, then, stopping all usage of it only one day a week is maybe 90% as unhealthy.

> It would be like saying you have a healthy relationship with smoking because you don't smoke at all for one day a week, but after that you can chain smoke 24/6.

I don't buy this at all (sidenote: interesting that you decided to use a throwaway for this comment?) - taking a vacation from distractions and a smartphone even for a week helps me for months afterwards because it allows me to realize that the pull isn't important - daily use builds up the idea, being able to not use it without consequences stops the FOMO.

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