Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#81

Post by spiritcat » Fri, Sep 14, 2018, 9:01 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #67

Animats wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. A whole collection of hardware has been developed to weasel out of the religious restrictions. There are "shabbos elevators", which not only stop on every floor (no button pushing), but bypass regenerative braking and dump the energy into a big resistor so as not to "do work". There's the "kosher light switch."[1] This looks like a regular light switch, and performs the same function. But it works by sensing the…

To be fair, if the law itself is what is important you can see the logic in doing this. It is a way of thinking that is not my own but it has a certain internal consistency.

Well ya the prohibition is about creating fire, why wouldn't you step on the elevator if it's just going to be going up and down anyway?

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#82

Post by ams6110 » Fri, Sep 14, 2018, 9:03 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #62

ido wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In effect I'd say that it is an attitude more concerned with the spirit and less with the letter of the law (so, for instance, I don't think turning on the light is an issue, and putting money on the table for someone to take isn't actually adhering to the prohibition on commerce). That's something that generally rubs me the wrong way about a lot of things with orthodox jewish practices (especially the ultra orthodox…

I mean, I can't lie -- it sometimes seems appealing compared to the constant, gnawing sense that you might not be doing things good enough that comes with Christianity.

The thing about Christianity is that you can always be forgiven. It's understood that people are imperfect sinners and while there are ideals and moral codes, we will fall short of them.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#83

Post by Symbiote » Fri, Sep 14, 2018, 9:04 PM UTC

> In a Sabbatarian economy, the right to rest – the right to do nothing of value to capital – is as holy as the right to work.

I realise this article is for American readers, and I'm not sure how to compare the holiness, but the EU Working Time Directive includes the right to a day off. It's more flexible than a simple day off, and has other rights.

Enforcement against the gig economy companies might need to be improved, but otherwise seems to work fine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive_2003

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#84

Post by emodendroket » Fri, Sep 14, 2018, 9:07 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #82

emodendroket wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I can't lie -- it sometimes seems appealing compared to the constant, gnawing sense that you might not be doing things good enough that comes with Christianity.

The thing about Christianity is that you can always be forgiven. It's understood that people are imperfect sinners and while there are ideals and moral codes, we will fall short of them.

Sure, but there is all the stuff about how not everyone who worships Jesus will join him in heaven and there is the parable of the sheep and the goats.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#85

Post by canadaduane » Fri, Sep 14, 2018, 9:08 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #48

avip wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As we live in a society, it makes sense to have a common day of rest - consider that schools, hospitals, public transit etc. are also resting. Plus your family and friends.

> consider that schools, hospitals, public transit etc. are also resting. Pretty sure two out of three of those aren't really resting. You think hospitals stop working or trains stop running? > it makes sense to have a common day of rest Eh, nah. I'm mostly a social democrat, and I'd be all for better worker protections in general in the US, but I haven't heard any socialists or labor advocates pushing for "oh yeah,…

There was a study 4 years ago regarding weekends--specifically, why do the unemployed also experience greater emotional well-being on Saturdays and Sundays, if they have basically free time any day of the week? It turned out that having a designated day (or days) for time off is a "network good"--felt by the entire network because it allows for more coordinated time together, all things considered.

"Increasingly, however, people are looking for individual time off when it is individually convenient. But personal flexibility can be a double-edged sword, the researchers found.

"Time flexibility is good for an individual, but it is bad for groups," Young said. "To make the most of modern life, we should search for temporal coordination – to work at the same times, and have time off together."

https://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/february/time-value-jobl...

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#86

Post by throwaway715875 » Fri, Sep 14, 2018, 9:09 PM UTC

gavman wrote: post #35

As an Orthodox Jew who observes the Sabbath every week, while sometimes finishing up work and preparations beforehand can be stressful at times, there's no feeling like turning off all phones/laptops/etc Friday evening and leaving it all behind. There's a supreme serenity that comes with the knowledge of "I can't do anything about it, so there's no point in worrying". As soon as Sabbath starts I'm totally focused on…

I'm Jewish but not religious anymore, and I know a lot of people that keep Shabbat that talk like this.

Frankly, I don't buy it. If we have a problem with detaching from technology, then, stopping all usage of it only one day a week is maybe 90% as unhealthy.

It would be like saying you have a healthy relationship with smoking because you don't smoke at all for one day a week, but after that you can chain smoke 24/6.

Now, I definitely don't think that social media/technology/ is nearly as bad as smoking. But if we accept the premise that maybe we're using it too much, then I think it's delusional to believe that stopping it for just one day a week is going to do anything substantial.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#87

Post by protomyth » Fri, Sep 14, 2018, 9:11 PM UTC

abraham_lincoln wrote: post #54

ido wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In effect I'd say that it is an attitude more concerned with the spirit and less with the letter of the law (so, for instance, I don't think turning on the light is an issue, and putting money on the table for someone to take isn't actually adhering to the prohibition on commerce). That's something that generally rubs me the wrong way about a lot of things with orthodox jewish practices (especially the ultra orthodox…

And yet, they are the only ones observing the Sabbath.

Well, some of the Protestants do still observe the Sabbath (generally anything with 7th Day in the title). Those that observer the Lord's Day are not quite as strict about it.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#88

Post by danjc » Fri, Sep 14, 2018, 9:11 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #62

ido wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In effect I'd say that it is an attitude more concerned with the spirit and less with the letter of the law (so, for instance, I don't think turning on the light is an issue, and putting money on the table for someone to take isn't actually adhering to the prohibition on commerce). That's something that generally rubs me the wrong way about a lot of things with orthodox jewish practices (especially the ultra orthodox…

I mean, I can't lie -- it sometimes seems appealing compared to the constant, gnawing sense that you might not be doing things good enough that comes with Christianity.

The freedom of Christianity is that Jesus has done the "good things" on your behalf so that your standing before God is not dependent on your own good works.

The corollary to this is that you want to do good because of your love for Jesus.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#89

Post by danjc » Fri, Sep 14, 2018, 9:13 PM UTC

neaden wrote: post #74

mikepurvis wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the whole point is that it depends on your approach. Jesus was very clearly in opposition to the religious elites of his day by choosing to walk, teach, and even perform physical healings on the Sabbath. The summation of the rationale for this is pretty clear: it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+12%3A9-...

Right. But Jesus wouldn't have wanted you to be driving for Uber on the Sabbath either.

He says the Sabbath was created for man not man for the Sabbath. His reaction was to the legalism of the day.

Re: Let’s bring back the Sabbath as an act against ‘total work’

#90

Post by allenofthehills » Fri, Sep 14, 2018, 9:13 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #62

ido wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In effect I'd say that it is an attitude more concerned with the spirit and less with the letter of the law (so, for instance, I don't think turning on the light is an issue, and putting money on the table for someone to take isn't actually adhering to the prohibition on commerce). That's something that generally rubs me the wrong way about a lot of things with orthodox jewish practices (especially the ultra orthodox…

I mean, I can't lie -- it sometimes seems appealing compared to the constant, gnawing sense that you might not be doing things good enough that comes with Christianity.

> constant, gnawing sense that you might not be doing things good enough

While that is a very common feeling, Christianity at it's core, is supposed to be an admission of inadequacy. "As a human, there is nothing I can ever do that will be good enough."