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Re: Android

#101

Post by cryptoz »

MrScruff wrote: post #56
mahmud wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think makes WP7 superior to Android? Please be as detailed as you can; this is not an argument, it's a feature request :-) A million lurking volunteers, bored but capable as they are, will take it upon themselves to improve Android before Google gets around to it (it's a vicious race for good hacks.)

Why do you believe this to be true? While the Linux desktop has improved incrementally over the years it has remained a good distance behind it's proprietary rivals.

I disagree with what you're saying, actually. While I know I'm biased as an Ubuntu user at home, I think that MS Windows and Apple OS X are far behind the Linux world when it comes to - for example - window management. In Windows 7, there's no way to make a window stay on top, if you hook up two monitors, you only have one taskbar, etc.

Another example is package management. If you want to mount an ISO in Windows, you have to scour Google for a while attempting to find a spyware-free available download. It's a garbage situation in Windows.

Linux, however, has amazing window management capabilities as well as package managers.

Now, if we turn to ease-of-use, I'd like to remind you that Google Chrome OS is coming out in one month (ish). While it is a proprietary OS, there is an open source / free software version called Chromium OS. This is a Linux OS that looks totally easy to use and will be natural for non-Linux people to handle.

I very strongly disagree that the Linux desktop is "a good distance" behind its rivals.

Re: Android

#102

Post by gaius »

jwr wrote: post #34

I find it interesting that most people who like Android like it in the future tense. Android is always great, but in that next version, that is just around the corner. That upcoming tablet, that upcoming phone, that upcoming software.

This is the year of the Linux tablet!

Re: Android

#103

Post by jsnell »

riobard wrote: post #96
jsnell wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might well be right on the iPad, the $200 Android tablets mentioned in this blog post are probably total crap. But the iPhone is clearly priced at a premium, 20-30% more than the models with comparable hardware from other phone manufacturers. Note that I'm not complaining. Apple is free to price their goods however they want, and if they can price the iPhone at a massive premium and still sell tons, that's great…

I hate to say this, but it seems common to compare price based on the hardware alone. Good software and good design cost money too. A lot of money. You pay for the development, testing, and design of all the prototypes discarded before the one you get. Android phone vendors save a lot on the development of the system because Google and many others paid for it. And frankly, based on the make of the majority of Android…

I don't understand why you're putting scare-quotes around '"premium"'. Apple do a lot of things very well, have a great brand, and unlike most of their competitors haven't been totally commoditized. That allows them to sell the iPhone and Macs at a high premium compared to the competitors. As a result they are ridiculously profitable while most other phone and PC manufacturers range from making a loss to making a modest profit.

(And actually Apple spends stunningly little on R&D compared to it's peers. There was a rather nice graph about this that I can't find, but e.g. Microsoft and Nokia spend an order of magnitude more on R&D than Apple does, while seemingly getting just a fraction of the results.)

Re: Android

#104

Post by arst »

GHFigs wrote: post #61
borism wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what people you talk to, but the current article clearly talks in present tense.

e.g. I asked him if he'd pay $199 for an Android tablet. He said "where can I get one"? The punchline is "Nowhere."

Sub-$200 Android tablets:

http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_020W023705190001P?v...

http://www.amazon.com/Archos-Home-Tablet-Android-Black/dp/B0...

Re: Android

#105

Post by jsnell »

potatolicious wrote: post #85
webwright wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But the iPhone and iPad aren't priced at a premium." I believe that AT&T subsidizes the hell out of the iPhone (pays Apple $400 per phone sold), which the do for the privilege of exclusivity, among other reasons. When/if that exclusivity dies, we'll see if carriers will pony up. The alternative is more expensive iPhones or reduced margins (will Apple be willing to accept the latter?).

> "I believe that AT&T subsidizes the hell out of the iPhone" No more than any other device. By all reports, the iPhone is not significantly more expensive to build than comparable smartphones, and in fact if you look at similar smartphones, both subsidized contract prices and unsubsidized prices are very similar to the iPhone as well. Android is going to open the market for cheaper, low-end smartphones, that's for c…

If I look at comparable high end smartphones, they are significantly cheaper than the iPhone whether subsidized or not. For example from Switzerland:

Locked,subsidized iPhone 4 16GB: 199 CHF + two year contract at 55 CHF / month Locked,subsidized Galaxy S: 1 CHF + two year contract at 55 CHF /month, but with the monthly fee waived for 3 months (so basically 350 CHF cheaper)

Unlocked, unsubsidized iPhone 4 16GB: 769 CHF Unlocked, unsubsidized Nokia N8: 519 CHF

Re: Android

#106

Post by ZeroGravitas »

thought_alarm wrote: post #48

But the iPhone and iPad aren't priced at a premium. Anyway, it's a mistake pit Google against Apple. The real battle will be between Google and Microsoft for the exact same hardware manufacturers and sales channels. (Meanwhile, you can buy an iPad from an Apple Store or from Walmart without any carrier involvement). Google hasn't managed the fragmentation problem very well, they haven't done enough to control the qua…

The iPhone is priced at a premium.

At best you could argue (like the standard Windows vs Apple arguments) that if you start with the iPhone and then try to match most of its features then you'll end up paying the same. More likely you're still paying up to a third more, though this may be mostly hidden by US carrier billing practices.

Of course if you start with a cheap Android phone like the ZTE Blade then you'll simply not be able to match it on price. Nor if you choose an Android phone with a 5" screen or hardware keyboard or HDMI out will you be able to match it on features.

Note the contradiction between the two common claims that a) the iPhone isn't more expensive than alternatives and b) Android is only gaining marketshare because of Buy-One-Get-One-Free deals.

Re: Android

#107

Post by biafra »

GHFigs wrote: post #61
borism wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what people you talk to, but the current article clearly talks in present tense.

e.g. I asked him if he'd pay $199 for an Android tablet. He said "where can I get one"? The punchline is "Nowhere."

You can get it from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Archos-Home-Tablet-Android-Black/dp/B0...

Re: Android

#108

Post by redthrowaway »

akho wrote: post #82
naner wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Microsoft's development tools are generally very popular with developers. Yes, very popular with .NET developers. That's the problem with Microsoft, everything is coupled together and isolated from anything non-Microsoft. You're usually either a .NET developer or an everything-else developer. Everyone else has free development tools/environments. Everyone else has vibrant online communities. Everyone else shares…

StackOverflow is somewhat .NET-biased, and it’s probably the most vibrant online community available. Mono provides a free development tool/environment built around skills easily transferred to .NET. Microsoft even occasionally collaborates with Mono. Also, “everything is coupled together” occasionally becomes a feature. However, what do I know — I haven’t ever used a Microsoft OS on a computer I control. .NET seems…

As a CS student, I'm a bit surprised that our curriculum contains no .NET whatsoever. We learn Java, C and C++ (both with gcc), Python, Perl, Bash scripting and ARM assembly, plus others depending on electives. While some of the lab computers run XP, all of our work has to be platform-independent. We work in *nix, and most of the professors use MBPs. It seems to me that the program really might be selling some of our students short by not covering something as huge as .NET, but I'm not complaining.

Re: Android

#109

Post by redthrowaway »

davidw wrote: post #24
jawngee wrote: post #18

Windows lacked the fit and finish of the Macintosh. But it didn't matter. Because there were hundreds of Windows machines whereas there was only a few variations of Macintosh, all controlled by the same company and priced at a premium. Windows is priced at a premium, you just don't feel it because the cost is rolled into the cost of whatever piece of kit you just bought. Is our memory so shallow as to forget the anti…

> Is our memory so shallow as to forget the anti-trust methods that brought Windows to dominance? It wasn't because the market wanted it, it was because that's what was crammed down the throat of the market. Yes, that came along eventually, but might I suggest a read of "20 years of high tech marketing disasters"? The author suggests that Microsoft came to dominate only thanks to other players in the market screwing…

I don't think anyone in tech can match the colossal, repeated fuckups of Xerox.

Re: Android

#110

Post by megablast »

orangecat wrote: post #68
thought_alarm wrote: post #48

But the iPhone and iPad aren't priced at a premium. Anyway, it's a mistake pit Google against Apple. The real battle will be between Google and Microsoft for the exact same hardware manufacturers and sales channels. (Meanwhile, you can buy an iPad from an Apple Store or from Walmart without any carrier involvement). Google hasn't managed the fragmentation problem very well, they haven't done enough to control the qua…

Google hasn't managed the fragmentation problem very well, they haven't done enough to control the quality the Android OS between carriers and manufacturers, and they've utterly mismanaged the Android Market. All true, and still they've had great success. (I'm actually surprised, given how bad the Market is and how blatantly the carriers are screwing up the phones). Which just means they can do even better if they ca…

"All true, and still they've had great success."

Google has had great success, which is good to see.

"Which just means they can do even better if they can address those obvious problems."

Not necessarily. If all these people are just buying android phones because they can not get an iPhone, then nothing Google does will change that. The real test will be when the iPhone is available on more carriers, and when people need to upgrade there Android devices, and stay with Android. It is just too soon to tell, so far.

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