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Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

citylab.com

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Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#41

Post by xapata »

jbob2000 wrote: post #33
adrianN wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other forms of electric transport, like scooters and electric bikes should be pushed more. Together with decent mass transit they solve the last mile problem quite nicely imho. But unfortunately the car lobby is extremely strong and doesn't want to lose its market.

There's this weird thing that happens in northern climates where all the bikers and scooter riders magically disappear sometime around October and don't reappear until sometime in April. I can't figure out why this happens, we should really aim to understand that before we push bikes and scooters on half the human population. I don't think it's the car lobby that causes this disappearance.

Not all. I just put on my balaklava and some knobby tires. It's not that bad with the right clothes. I wouldn't walk around in Boston winter without my face masks either.

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#42

Post by jbob2000 »

village-idiot wrote: post #34
jbob2000 wrote: post #23

I can't afford a condo in the big cities, I'm not sure how riding a bike will change that? In fact it will probably make it worse as people move to the cities to ride their bikes, which will make real estate there even more expensive. Low density and low efficiency means low cost. Efficiency doesn't maintain itself.

Low density does not mean low cost if you actually factor in the cost of public infrastructure, which we do not currently. Suburbs require much more miles of pipe and road per person, all of which must be funded by local taxes and federal subsidies. Most of them only appear cheap because the initial setup is funded by developers and federal grants. There are "cheap" suburbs in the US that wouldn't be able to meet the…

I don't live in the US so those aren't really concerns for me.

My quiet suburb has been able to keep the roads and pipes maintained while also keep property tax low. I think it's actually easier (read: cheaper) to maintain infrastructure in low density areas because there are less complications. Laying pipe through an open field is easier than laying it under 100+ years of city development.

Distance isn't the big cost, complexity is.

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#43

Post by 5parks1 »

adrianN wrote: post #37
5parks1 wrote: post #30

The Dutch cycling culture is worthy of praise, but people frequently forget or ignore a key element of its success: Amsterdam is pancake flat. I live outside of Denver, and my neighborhood is very cycling friendly, but my 8-year old daughter can't make it up the hill on our street without walking.

There are many cities that are as flat as Amsterdam and have a similar climate but have a fraction of the cyclists.

Right. I don't think the flatness and climate are the sole reason for its success, but they're certainly a big contributor.

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#45

Post by adrianN »

jbob2000 wrote: post #33
adrianN wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other forms of electric transport, like scooters and electric bikes should be pushed more. Together with decent mass transit they solve the last mile problem quite nicely imho. But unfortunately the car lobby is extremely strong and doesn't want to lose its market.

There's this weird thing that happens in northern climates where all the bikers and scooter riders magically disappear sometime around October and don't reappear until sometime in April. I can't figure out why this happens, we should really aim to understand that before we push bikes and scooters on half the human population. I don't think it's the car lobby that causes this disappearance.

In the Netherlands the fraction of cyclists that keep riding in Winter is much larger than in cities with similar climate. Cycling in winter is not that hard, it's not worse that going on foot. What's important is that snow is removed.

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#46

Post by village-idiot »

chrissnell wrote: post #32
village-idiot wrote: post #9

Anyone who's believed that the key to sustainable futures is simply swapping out ICE for electric motors simply is being wishful at best, willfully difficult at worse. The biggest problem I have with electric cars is that they continue to encourage low density low efficiency suburbs with hours long commutes into the high density cities. This is economically unsustainable, roads are expensive, and will only get worse…

The ship sailed on low-density suburbs 60 years ago. We're past the point of return on those. Outside of San Francisco, Manhattan, and downtown Chicago, most people live in the 'burbs and that's not changing. We will be living with this housing stock for decades--if not centuries--to come. It's best to engineer around that reality, not to daydream of an Amsterdam-like utopia that will never happen for 99% of this cou…

You are far too certain. 70 years ago a prognosticator wouldn't be considered insane to say "the ship sailed on cities 50 years ago, Americans live in downtown and that's not changing". These things do change, often quite quickly.

Personally, I think the Boomers are in for a big shock when they try to sell their homes for a "fair" price, and discover that Millennials neither want nor can afford large suburban homes. Once that happens the market (and politics probably) are going to do some really freaky things.

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#47

Post by aqme28 »

jbob2000 wrote: post #33
adrianN wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other forms of electric transport, like scooters and electric bikes should be pushed more. Together with decent mass transit they solve the last mile problem quite nicely imho. But unfortunately the car lobby is extremely strong and doesn't want to lose its market.

There's this weird thing that happens in northern climates where all the bikers and scooter riders magically disappear sometime around October and don't reappear until sometime in April. I can't figure out why this happens, we should really aim to understand that before we push bikes and scooters on half the human population. I don't think it's the car lobby that causes this disappearance.

How far northern are we talking? There are still a lot of bikers in NYC in my observation, and Amsterdam is pretty far north.

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#48

Post by brightball »

village-idiot wrote: post #9

Anyone who's believed that the key to sustainable futures is simply swapping out ICE for electric motors simply is being wishful at best, willfully difficult at worse. The biggest problem I have with electric cars is that they continue to encourage low density low efficiency suburbs with hours long commutes into the high density cities. This is economically unsustainable, roads are expensive, and will only get worse…

Another way to look at the problem:

Locating offices unnecessarily in the middle of high-density cities creates long commutes.

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#49

Post by 5parks1 »

alonmower wrote: post #10
zoul wrote: post #7

I’d love more bikes in our town, but it’s not very flat. Is there some data on how much flat does the town have to be to get around on a bike? (I guess electric bikes change that equation a bit, but they’re still quite expensive.)

San Francisco is a big biking town and is very much not flat. You can get around on a bike in a hilly city, it's a combination of learning slightly longer but flatter routes to where you're going and getting used to the hills as you get in better biking shape.

This seems to contradict the 8-80 rule mentioned in the article. "Getting in better biking shape" is a realistic goal for someone healthy and middle aged, but notsomuch for an 8 or 80 year old.

Re: Cycling Is Key to Safer, Healthier, More Vital Cities

#50

Post by village-idiot »

option wrote: post #40

I wonder how a bike or even public transit is going to replace a car? 1) How am I supposed ro go to the beach with two kids, stuff for picnic and surfboards on a bike or even on a bus?!! 2) Public transit is all good, but have you ever been in a PEOPLE jam during rush hour in a subway? Because I had. And I will take SV traffic jam over it any day. The truly bad things happen because of radicalism - it should not be b…

People got along just fine before the car.

And heaven forbid that you have to interact with other people on public transit. How ever will you survive?

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