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Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

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Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#101

Post by neffy »

azangru wrote: post #81
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how these stories over the poisoning have played out it certainly looks that way. The "cover" story is comically poor, and they have plenty of people intelligent enough to do better. So short of Putin calling a press conference saying "Yup, we did it" it couldn't have been telegraphed much clearer.

> they have plenty of people intelligent enough to do better Now, that's a very charitable assumption. I am not sure we have any evidence for that :-) > Given how these stories over the poisoning have played out it certainly looks that way. But that would mean that they were provoking the Western countries to give them hell. I am the first to admit that I do not hold their intellectual powers in any high esteem, but…

No, I would gently submit that they are provoking Western media to give them lots, and lots, of free publicity.

Western countries are not going to give Russia any kind of hell that Russia´s rulers will really care about. Russia is a major gas and oil supplier to the entire of Western Europe.

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#102

Post by AlexeyParamonov »

pwned1 wrote: post #79
AlexeyParamonov wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't take pills, I live here and all the Skripal story is looking like a bullshit to me, that's my point of view so you can see not only what your mass media is feeding you. Russia is gaining power and other countries don't want that, so come up with ideas to blame Russia in all sins.

Why not "gain power" in a constructive way that benefits humanity, instead of always taking the side of tyrants and dictators?

If you are talking about Bashar al-Assad - he is officially elected president by the people in his country. I would not call him dictator. Only western people sitting on the other side of the planet know better who is the best leader for the people in other countries, lol. Sorry I can't post anymore cause I had so many votes agains my opinion.

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#103

Post by [deleted] »

elmo2you wrote: post #67
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of Holland's largest companies, Royal Dutch Shell, bought exclusive concession rights (for several decades to come) to natural resources in the Ukraine, most of which became inaccessible to them after the regime change in Kiev Royal Dutch Shell’s 20% interest in Rosneft [1], a Russian oil company, eclipses the its exposure to Ukraine. This has been a sticking point at every sanctions crossroads, with the Dutch…

I have to admit that I did not know that. How does Shell's interest in Rosneft make their loss in the Ukraine acceptable? I get why they don't want to jeopardize their interest in Rosneft, including "advising" the Dutch government to not adopt any sanctions that would harm it. At the same time, they still would additionally benefit from regaining access to the east of the Ukraine. Or are those two goals mutually excl…

[deleted]

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#104

Post by huhtenberg »

r721 wrote: post #99
huhtenberg wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's the TV line. This guy lived quietly in the UK and had no "Putin's beans" to spill. He did blow cover of several hundred Russian agents, but he did time for that in Russia and then he was exchanged. It is possible it was a long-delayed payback from the GRU, but, again, there is no reason for it to be made that publicly. He could've choked on a pound coin and everyone who needed to know would've gotten the…

>Sergei V. Skripal, the former Russian spy poisoned in Britain with a powerful nerve agent, appears to have been working in recent years with intelligence officers in Spain, a country locked in a pitched battle with Russian organized crime groups, some with ties to the Russian government. >Rather than merely living an isolated life in retirement, Mr. Skripal, a former Russian military intelligence officer, continued…

How interesting. This definitely puts things in a different perspective.

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#105

Post by huhtenberg »

foldr wrote: post #100
huhtenberg wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reasoning in this context doesn't make any sense. That's the problem.

Ok then. Who else had the motivation to ostentatiously kill him using a weapon only available to state actors?

Another state actor? Though in the light of [1] it'd seem far less probable.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17987031

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#106

Post by AlexeyParamonov »

lucozade wrote: post #74
AlexeyParamonov wrote: post #27

Yeah, we, Russians, are so stupid so decided to kill the guy who was in our prison several years ago (why did not we do that then?) with a top Soviet chemical weapon which is like droping a nuclear bomb to kill a single person. There is a information war happening to desecrate Russian Federation in the eyes of the world and nothing more.

> why did not we do that then? Because that would have been stupid. Why kill a spy when you can exchange him for your spies and then kill him. Which is what they (almost) did. Quite sensible really in a "fuck you world" kind of way.

Makes sense in some way. But why "Novichok" did not work then, if it is so scary super-duper chemical weapon? Both of the victims are cured.

Basically western mass media was talking that only Russia has a formula for Novichok form the beginning, how did they came up to know that is is Novichok without having the formula? If anyone can have that formula to compare or to detect that poison, is there any evidence that it was originally produced by Russia?

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#107

Post by megous »

guilhas wrote: post #90
megous wrote: post #32

Quite believable. Russian gov. has a motive to interfere with OPCW investigations, and anything that can sow more doubt, fear, confusion or distraction is good as to their strategy post-Chemical attacks that gain publicity. The final report on Douma attack is yet to be released, so it would not be late to create needless problems for the investigation, and I trust OPCW to not make up stuff about hacking attempts cert…

Russians had to beg for the OPCW to go collect samples from Douma. While they were there, UK, FR, US were having fun bombing the area. How can more Russian FUD be good for Russia? Because that is UK and US do everyday. They dont need Russia help. Also OPCW does analysis in more than one lab. Both Skripal and Syria chemical use theories are very weak.

Not really. Point me to the OPCW report that says evidence of chemical weapons use in Syria is weak.

FUD is good, because it takes away/weakens popular support from any kind of western intervention, which is good for Putin's interests in the region. Less competition.

Also you're rewriting history. I was actually watching the developments quite closely as it was happening and there were numerous reports of Russians delaying OPCW FFM on basis of security in the area, while at the same time parading around some journalists in the same area.

And last, the US and friends bombing were during the night and in a different place. Certainly nothing that would prevent OPCW FFM from operating in the area.

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#108

Post by ionised »

yAnonymous wrote: post #34
jstanley wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't suggesting that they actually had WMDs on them. He was drawing parallels to a high-profile previous instance of government officials lying about "enemies" in an effort to create support for wars that further their own ends. But I think you knew that.

He did however suggest that the UK, Dutch and Swiss agencies can't be trusted in this case, which is beyond laughable. It implies that another actor would have tried to kill former Russian agents and UK citizens with a chemical weapon. Why would anyone in the west go to such lengths to frame Russia in this? It'd be like kicking a kid that's on the ground. They have nothing to gain from it. Adding to that, the bluntne…

As a Brit, I don't have a single lick of trust in the UK intelligence services.

They don't exist to protect people like me, they exist to preserve the status quo.

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#109

Post by yAnonymous »

coldtea wrote: post #44
yAnonymous wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did however suggest that the UK, Dutch and Swiss agencies can't be trusted in this case, which is beyond laughable. It implies that another actor would have tried to kill former Russian agents and UK citizens with a chemical weapon. Why would anyone in the west go to such lengths to frame Russia in this? It'd be like kicking a kid that's on the ground. They have nothing to gain from it. Adding to that, the bluntne…

> He did however suggest that the UK, Dutch and Swiss agencies can't be trusted in this case, which is beyond laughable. Yeah, because agencies and especially of good old colonial powers like UK and Dutch have historically been very trustable, and not at all working to promote the interests of their states (with lies, covert action, false flag operations, and so on) > It implies that another actor would have tried to…

>and from 2000 other ways to kill someone they chose something that's the equivalent of living their business card on the murder scene...

This was always about sending a message. For that, it has to be obvious who did it.

Re: Russian spies detained in The Hague were planning cyber break-in at Swiss lab

#110

Post by AlexeyParamonov »

golergka wrote: post #86
AlexeyParamonov wrote: post #27

Yeah, we, Russians, are so stupid so decided to kill the guy who was in our prison several years ago (why did not we do that then?) with a top Soviet chemical weapon which is like droping a nuclear bomb to kill a single person. There is a information war happening to desecrate Russian Federation in the eyes of the world and nothing more.

From my first-hard experience of incompetence and incoordination of different Russian intelligence agencies and branches (mostly internal, though) - yes, "we" are that stupid. Aggressive, resourceful, but stupid indeed.

Calling some person a "spy" without any investigation is stupid as well. As we all know Skripal in not a spy for a long time (former - maybe), but he was called "Russian Spy" from the beginning of all this story. Bullshit all over the place.
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